Skyrim talk:Trainers

Journeyman, Adept ?

Where do those words appear for trainers? If I speak to a trainer (for example Faendal) I see the line "Trainer Common" in the training window. --Alfwyn 15:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I was basing them on the names the games uses for the different skill levels (Novice, Apprentice, Adept, etc.). Never noticed the names in the training window. Sorry about that. --Timenn-<talk> 15:40, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

No problem. There might be other words used for trainers, I just didn't stumble over them in-game so far. --Alfwyn 15:51, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

"Free" Training: Cheat or Tool?

I've noticed several places throughout the wiki that people have noted that certain trainers (I.E. Faendall, Aela The Huntress, etc.) are followers, and are therefore able to be used to carry some of your belongings... Problem is you can also get into what they're carrying too, which happens to be your gold that you just used to get trained... What does the general wiki really think of this as then? It seems a bit like cheating, (after all, you can quickly reach not only a high level, but a high archery or other skills through these early in the game) but it also seems somewhat logical, after all to unlock a follower you have to either help them, or the group they represent (Whiterun for Lidya, Faendall's love triangle, etc.) in order to unlock them, and then they're your companion, and therefore helping you would be beneficial... ~~ ArcHorizon (1:04 AM, 25 November 2011)

I think it is an intended game mechanism, you can also pickpocket your money back (for low level training and with the relevant perks/skill), or if the trainer is also a merchant, the money goes into his/her merchant gold, so you can sell directly after the training (leaving the house decreases the merchants money instantly) more than usual. You can also kill the trainer and take your gold (if he/she is not essential), or pickpocket unsuccessfull and use your title "Thane" or pay the bounty (which could be less than the pickpocketed gold). --Psychomc 23:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

FormID useful?

I'm not a regular console user, so my questions is what makes the FormID entry in the table useful? It seems to match the BaseID given on the page about the trainer. If the utility of the FormID is such that it is additionally included here, it may warrant a short explanation of it's use somewhere on the page. --Alfwyn 15:37, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Gold Cost

At low levels 1-50 the gold cost seems to be something along the lines of rank x10, once you reach 50+ in a skill training for it suddenly becomes rank x30!! Talamare 13:05, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

As a side note, if you start training under 50, and finish over 50, the price stays at x10. (i.e. Train 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, costs 480, 490, 500, 510 and 520). 65.175.218.213 18:49, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Ignore my previous comment, the cost seems to go to 30x at 51 as stated initially. I am certain I paid 510 gold for training at 51, but I think I had a some soft of buff, so my base skill level was less than 50, but I had to pay more due to the buff. If someone else can confirm/deny the training cost switch between 50/51, it would be appreciated. 65.175.218.213 04:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Player training a NPC

In much of the early information on the game one thing stood out to me the line "When not completing quests, the player can interact with NPCs through conversation, and they may request favors or training in skills from the player" has anyone ever had this happen for them? 68.172.212.252 12:35, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, you do a quest, they give you a free point in (insert skill here) as payment. Also, there's a random College of Winterhold quest where a mage asks you to use your Ward spell so he can throw Destruction spells at it. Other than that, no. VycDarkshadow (talk) 05:04, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

Non-Trainers

Hermir Strong-Heart was previously removed the page. I've now deleted Ahkari and Melaran, as well. All three are listed in the Official Game Guide but based on the game data, I don't see how any of them can be trainers.

As far as I can tell, two conditions need to be met to be a trainer. One is that the person has to be a member of the "Skill Trainer" faction -- that's how I'd originally been identifying trainers, but it's not 100% conclusive, since scripts can always add/remove faction memberships. However, the second condition that I just discovered last week is that the NPC's class has to be a trainer class -- the class specifies both the skill and also the level to which the NPC will train you. It's very unlikely that scripts alter the NPC classes.

All three of the now-deleted trainers fail both conditions, plus from google searches I've found people reporting problems with all three trainers.

Also, while I'm here, might as well mention that I also added Ra'zhinda even though she's not in the game guide. --Nephele^Talk 20:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Gharol is still listed as HeavyArmor Trainer but doesn't train, wrote this on her talk page but probably should have here. Tested after various quest completions too just to make sure. --tm

I just could. Playing around with player.setAV heavyarmor x it seems that Gharol doesn't seem to offer the training dialogue once your Heavy Armor skill is greater than 49. --Alfwyn 23:12, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Speaking to her with 49 in Heavy Armor, I could train my five times to 54, after which she stopped giving the dialogue. So it seems to be a half-hearted attempt at a 0-50 trainer. --Alfwyn 23:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Testing with Faendal, he stops giving me the dialogue (can't enter conversation) with archery >49. But I can only train to 50 with him. Gharol on the other hand says "expert" in the dialogue. Looks to me like a mixup of a common trainer dialogue with an expert trainer training interface. --Alfwyn 23:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

(←) As noted earlier, I can't seem to get any training from Ra'zhinda. There is no problem with Ma'jhad travelling in the same group though. --Alfwyn 02:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Other services

Imho it makes sense to divide the (empty) column "other services" into two or more containing a green check mark if this trainer provide the service:

Lvl	Trainer	Location	Merchant	Follower
Alchemy Training
	x	Morthal	Yes	Yes
	y	In her Whiterun store Arcadia's Cauldron
	z	The Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary		Yes

--Psychomc 16:50, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I think the table is good enough as is. Implementing your idea would add an unnecessary column, plus it would remove the info on what type of merchant they are. ?• JA^Talk 06:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Master Trainers

Seems that training only goes up to level 90 with Master trainers.

Which is why at the top of the page it defines: Master (1-90). What exactly needs to be discussed? --Nephele^Talk 07:54, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

training carry over

A recent addition sayeth:

Progress within a level is not carried over by training. If you are nearly ready to advance a level anyway, it may be better to do so with a little more normal skill usage, if possible, before purchasing training.

I'm not sure this is true. Certainly, as I've trained, I see the grayish part of the specific skill bar stay about constant. As I'm trying to train 5 times per level, I frequently train near the end of the level causing the level to advance. Am I misinterpreting the meaning of "Progress within a level"?
--DayDreamer 15:48, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I wrote that (and forgot to put in a desription for the edit, sorry). I find that if the skill's progress bar isn't at zero when I start training, it moves up to full, I get the new skill level, and the bar clears. So if I'm, say, 90% towards the next skill level, I effectively only get 10% of a skill level from the training. Perhaps there's a difference between platforms - I play on an Xbox. Peterguard 16:31, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Aha, that would be progress within a "skill", not progress within a "level". As we already have bugs with training skills starting at 0, this is something that needs further verification. I'll remove it until then.
--DayDreamer 16:41, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

(←) I've tested this for PC 1.5. The training menu visual indicator does indeed clear the progress bar to zero. But checking the Skills menu immediately afterward shows the initial progress was not lost.

1. In the 1st test case, I went back all the way to the beginning of the game and checked there. Warrior Stone. I had just Rested (but not Well Rested) at Alvor's, and met Faendal.
   • Started with Archery at 15, but had a small (1 stealthy shot) amount of experience from the Bear in Helgen.
   • After 35 trainings, it was 50 and seemed full. I could not see any room in the progress bar.
   • A single shot at a deer rolled it over to 51.
2. In the 2nd test case, with Stealth Stone, but no resting bonus:
   • Started with Sneak at roughly 18 and 1/3.
   • After 5 trainings, it was 23 and 1/2.
   • Another 5 trainings, and it was 28 and 5/8 (maybe even 3/4).
3. In the 3rd test case, both Stealth Stone and Well Rested bonus:
   • Started with Pickpocket at 15, and absolutely zero experience.
   • After 5 trainings, it was 20 and 1/3.
   • After 15 trainings, it was 30 and 7/8.
   • A single pickpocket rolled it over to 31.

Conclusion, nothing is lost. It seems no 2 levels at a time, even though entitled to it with bonuses. But that would need more testing. Can we get another tester or another platform to verify?
--DayDreamer 08:42, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I can verify it's the same on Xbox on an unpatched version of the game. I actually meant to post a reply to this last night saying so, but got distracted and never got around to it. ABCface^◥ 12:08, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

This has been marked as a question that needs to be answered.

(←) Has anybody else been able to verify the no 2 skill levels in training, even though entitled by additive bonuses? That seems worthy of a mention that was in the original "If you are nearly ready to advance a level anyway, it may be better to do so with a little more normal skill usage, if possible, before purchasing training."
--DayDreamer 17:49, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I've spent a lot of time testing this in a new PC run through with USKP 1.1, and it's definitely helpful to finish a level before training. It gets stuck at nearly finished, thereby wasting the resting or guardian stone bonus. I'll try to make a note of it.
-DayDreamer 03:57, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorine

The last edit to this article put in Sorine as another Master Trainer for Archery. However, I believe she may be a common or expert trainer as I distinctly remember her not training me after a certain point before 80. If I'm just insane don't change it but if I am right we should change her symbol obviously. --Enriquevv75 08:52, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorine should be marked as a merchant at least - I just sold 20k worth of potions to her for 5 levels of archery training. -- [Arcadian]

Two-handed trainers

Fura Bloodmouth from the Dawnguard plug-in (Volkihar side) also is a master trainer in two-handed weapons. Does someone want to add that or should I? 71.161.232.196 17:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Done. ABCface^◥ 14:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Training that doesn't advance your level

Ran into a situation with Arcadia (Alchemy trainer in Whiterun) in which I paid her for training and my alchemy level didn't advance -- stayed at 39 regardless of how many times I paid and she trained. Anyone else run across this? Any ideas on a workaround, console or otherwise? Wordmama (talk) 14:52, 3 February 2013 (GMT)

This is a fairly common bug with. You will need to train yourself one level, and then training can resume. A lot of trainers have this, though it isn't known what affects this, or what level it "breaks" at for each trainer. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 15:07, 3 February 2013 (GMT)

Thanks! First time I've run across it, but it's nice to know there's an easy fix. Wordmama (talk) 18:10, 3 February 2013 (GMT)

Farkas and Vilkas no longer Master Trainers in Dragonborn?

Noticed that Farkas and Vilkas no longer offer training of any kind with the Dragonborn DLC. I'm aware there's a Master Two-Handed and a Master Heavy Armor trainer in Solstheim, but why would they mess with Farkas and Vilkas? And is there a fix to make Farkas and Vilkas trainers again? Try the addfac and setclass commands, with the ID of their respective training classes, but to no avail. VycDarkshadow (talk) 05:21, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

They both still offer training for me (SR+DG+HF+DB, nothing else). Do you use the unofficial patch? That may sometimes break things with new add-ons till they got around fixing it. --Alfwyn (talk) 16:57, 14 February 2013 (GMT)

I do, but if i disable all the Unofficial Patches and leave Dragonborn activated, they still won't train me. In contrast, if i disable Dragonborn and activate all the Unofficial Patches, i can get the training from Farkas and Vilkas.VycDarkshadow (talk) 05:03, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

I really don't know what Bethesda did with DB, but since I installed the DLC I have many CTDs (I never had a crash before, even when playing for hours). Anyway, since that time I also could not ask Vilkas to teach me in 2-handed weapons. The funny thing is that also Wulf Wild-Blood doesn't offer that dialog option. I just did a quick test and put the Unofficial Skyrim Patch after the Unofficial Dragonborn Patch in the load order. I traveled from Solstheim back to Skyrim and Vilkas now offers the option again. Perhaps it would have been wise to release DB one month later and fix a few bugs...--188.99.19.183 21:39, 16 February 2013 (GMT)

Some questions / problems with info on page

I've just tried to give this page a little polish. I encountered two problems or potential problems in the article, and have marked them within the article using :

1. "Training benefits from Sleeping and Standing Stone bonuses. However, the cumulative benefit will not advance the skill two levels during training. If you are nearly ready to advance a skill level, it is better to do so with normal skill usage to avoid losing the bonus."

2. * Trainers that double as followers can train you for without cost: They will charge you, but you maintain control of the gold transferred into their inventory.

• • This exploit is no longer possible as of version 1.2.6 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch

If anyone can provide a clearer (easier to read?) revision of the information given in 1, and make the answer to my question in 2 clear, please help. Otherwise, I will remove the invisitext within 7-10 days. --JR (talk) 08:02, 17 February 2013 (GMT)

For number 1, I think we can get rid of the "cumulative" part, it's confusing and unnecessary; training provides one skill level, period. However, from what I know training gives you the exact amount of XP necessary to go to the next level; for example, if you need 5000 XP to go from level 20 to 21 but already have 2000, training will provide you 5000 and you keep the 2000, the XP you earned by playing does not disappear. I don't know how to formulate this any clearer, it's pretty specific information.

As for number 2, as far as I know training gold remains in people's inventory forever. I guess you could still remove it using the console but otherwise no, the patch is the only solution. Hope this helps. Elakyn (talk) 11:02, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

The unofficial patch removes the exploit. That means if you don't have the patch, the exploit still exists. — ABCface^◥ 19:40, 18 February 2013 (GMT)

Thanks, ABCface. I just came back and looked at it again, and thought, "Where was my mind?" Elakyn: Can you fill in some more details about how training and XP works? Or is in on another page? Leveling? Elakyn: So, a training gives you the amount of XP needed to advance one level, regardless of how much XP you have toward the next level. So, if you are at 21.5, a single training will take you to 22.5 (or maybe slightly less as the number of XP increases with levels. Is that right? Then, we need to find out more about how that works if we want to put more detailed info on this page. (For example, does the amount of XP needed to level increase with each level? At what rate/s?) That's something that might be documented already, or maybe someone will answer here. I think it's worth it to try to get some quality, reader-friendly info on this topic on the page. I might not be the best-equipped to figure this out, but I think I can if no one else will. I'll track developments here. For now, I'm removing the confusing/unclear info. --JR (talk) 06:42, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

That's essentially how it works, at least from what I observed. Going from 21.5 to the next level would put you somewhere around 22.45 I guess, but that's really minimal. The amount of XP needed is slightly increased at each level, according to the Leveling page it follows a specific formula so it's proportional, not arbitrary values. Elakyn (talk) 22:09, 25 February 2013 (GMT)

From my experience, training doesn't seem to move the progress meter at all unless you have an XP bonus in place, a sleeping bonus or a standing stone bonus, in which case the progress meter fills up a bit more every time you train. Which suggests that what training really gives you is XP equivalent to exactly what you need to advance to the same position in the next level, and resting/stone bonuses add to that number. --Morrolan (talk) 23:52, 9 March 2013 (GMT)

Level 1 training

Instead of having an edit war, can we perhaps discuss this?

I've tried this with a few different characters; at level 1, XBox 1.9, Hearthfire installed (I usually wait until I'm higher level before activating Dawnguard & Dragonborn), you get 5/5 training when talking to Faendal, and have to hit level 2 to train. --Morrolan (talk) 19:45, 15 July 2013 (GMT)

I train with him from level 1 on every play through with no problems.--69.136.59.17 16:40, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

Yeah, platform, mods, patch version number and DLCs installed would be useful. --Morrolan (talk) 20:00, 19 July 2013 (GMT)

It must have been a glitch. Removed the note today. If it happens to me again, I'll add it to Bugs. --Morrolan (talk) 13:43, 2 August 2013 (GMT)

Happened again. Sort of. I think I have figured out the cause of it, adding to Bugs. --Morrolan (talk) 02:17, 7 August 2013 (GMT)

Devlin

Can anyone actually confirm one way or another when Devlin will start training. As soon as you start talking to Brynjolf in Riften you are in the Theives Guild, so someone needs to get to Devlin after bypassing Brynjolf. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 21:02, 12 November 2013 (GMT)

Devlin offers Sneak training immediately. Started new game, proceeded directly to Riften via carriage, went straight to the Ragged Flagon without initiating any conversations at all inside the city. Spoke to Devlin and was offered Sneak training as the only conversation option. Vex and Tonilia won't have interactive conversations at all, though. Cdarklock (talk) 03:54, 6 April 2014 (GMT)

Trainers by location?

Does anyone else think it would be useful to make a list of trainers by location, so you know which trainers are available where? Sometimes you want to know "where can I train in this skill," sometimes you want to know "what can I train in this place." Cdarklock (talk) 06:21, 6 April 2014 (GMT)

It would be a good thing, perhaps on the location pages under notes? Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 14:32, 7 April 2014 (GMT)

5 times per level - Total

Note that you can only train 5 times per level, not 5 times per level per trainer — Unsigned comment by 207.96.182.162 (talk) at 18:24 on 30 April 2014

I'm not seeing anything on the page that suggests otherwise. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 18:42, 30 April 2014 (GMT)

Leveling Count

On both the ps3 and xbox versions, at least for me, only the first two times I train per level actually count toward my overall progress; however I don't see anything about it on the page. Anybody else have this issue? VɅƝØȠƊØΓƑ ^ʂƥξαƙ 19:32, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Where is the "Times Trained This Level" stat

that is referred to? I've never seen it in the Journal in any of the Skyrim versions I've played (VR, PS3, PS4). It's a stat I've sorely needed numerous times, and wondered why they didn't have it, seems like an obvious one to have...please show me I'm a dummy and it's really there.

it will show when you talk to the trainer, x/5. 208.53.115.151 16:42, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Reverse-engineering

I decided to investigate some of the bugs listed on this page and I believe I can confirm this one through disassembly of Skyrim Classic:

If you have an active Fortify Skill effect, the cost of training will appear to be for the increased skill. However, the trainer will only take the price for training at your actual skill level.

There is an internal function, GetTrainingCost, located at 0x0059B570 in Skyrim Classic. It takes as an argument the player's skill level in the requisite skill, and returns the cost to train as a float. This function is called in two places: one call site (0x008937AC) updates the cost displayed in the UI, while the other (0x00893F21) actually carries out the gold transaction and trains the player. The former call uses the "maximum" value for the player's skill actor value (i.e. ActorValueOwner::GetMaximum) while the latter call uses the "base" value for the player's skill actor value (i.e. ActorValueOwner::GetBase). DavidJCobb (talk) 15:45, 18 March 2020 (GMT)

Testing confirms this bug:

If a skill has some progress toward its next level, the training progress bar will fill and then empty. However, checking the Skills menu shows the initial progress was not lost.

When you train a skill up by one level, the game is hardcoded to tell the progress bar to animate to full. The trainingmenu.swf file, in turn, is coded so that when the progress bar fills up, it animates back to 0. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism by which the menu file can request the current skill percentage from the game (as opposed to passively receiving that percentage when the game decides to send it), so all it can do is animate back to an empty bar even when there's some progress to show. DavidJCobb (talk) 00:35, 19 March 2020 (GMT)