Skyrim talk:Block/Archive 3

This is an archive of past Skyrim talk:Block discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Shield Charge Exploit

If you go into sneak, block with a shield (Spellbreaker used), and then sprint (unknown what happens if you have the sneak roll perk), you will charge while still technically in sneak mode (I know this because of sneak skill gains and the sneak eye still changes), and you will continue to charge when you have 0 stamina.

tl;dr:Infinite, offensive sneak/block/sprint. Exploitable, but amusing. Please confirm. Could use specifics and technicalities to understand why/how glitch happens.— Unsigned comment by 98.88.141.227 (talk) at 23:52 on 5 May 2012

torches

are torches affected by perks such as disarming bash and power bash? — Unsigned comment by 70.187.89.178 (talk) at 02:36 on 9 July 2012

Elemental Protection Applying First!

Okay so tested this over a dozen times now on 360 and it appears that as of 1.7 with DG and HF that Elemental Protection isn't stacking on top of other resists but is instead applying first and then the remaining damage is being affected by your other resists. I've done the math on multiple damages I've taken with this against multiple enemies and for example with my Male Imperial with Elemental Protection, Lord Stone and Blessing of Mara for a total of 40% general magic resist a Forsworn Ravager Shaman's Icy Spear does 90 damage, I take roughly 30 damage which is nearly equal to the results of this formula. 90-50%(EP)=45 45-40%(GMR)=27. Can anyone else confirm that as of the most recent versions that Elemental Protection does indeed apply its resistance BEFORE any othe resistances come into play. Lord Eydvar ^{Talk | Contribs} 00:37, 17 September 2012 (GMT)

I can. Elemental Protection is not, technically, the same as Magic Resistance. It only reduces the amount of Magic damage you take by 50%. The other half (the half that actually hits you) is then resisted after you're hit. This appears to be done intentionally. VycDarkshadow (talk) 23:14, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Staggering a giant with shield bash

Discovered this after fighting my first giant. Apparently, all you need to stagger a giant 100% of the time with a shield bash is timing.

Using a Redguard's Adrenaline rush and a vegetable soup to keep my stamina topped up, I shield bashed as soon as he started to perform any attack. The timing was achieved by shield bashing during his power attack, swinging normally once, and immediately shield bashing ASAP. From a very difficult fight which I had little chance of winning, I won without a scratch this way.

Seems that as long as you shield bash relatively early in the enemy attack, you'll stagger your enemy with 100% certainty. Most regular enemies have swing normal swing speeds that are too fast, but giants can be kept in perpetual stagger quite easily. Gotta try this on two-handed weapon enemies later.

-Mrbunnyban — Unsigned comment by 175.143.216.118 (talk) at 11:21 on 8 December 2012‎

Block Dragon Fire

When you're fighting a dragon on the floor, if you powerbash (or just bash I didn't have any perks) it stops fire attacks by staggering them. Worth a mention? 2.103.118.34 17:13, 26 December 2012 (GMT)

I think it is, because many people (including me) wouldn't think to bash a dragon. And since players battle so many of them, some will enjoy experimenting with a wider variety of tactics. Added. --JR (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2012 (GMT)

Important but not answered

Hi guys, what is the limit of Block effectiveness? Is there a "cap"? The Notes section states that most of the damage will be cut by half. Now, what does that mean? Blocking with anything, be it an Iron Dagger or Daedric Battleaxe or Shield of Ysgramor, will be cut by half mostly? What are the percentages? How much percent on Fortify Block is required to reach the maximum effectiveness? There is also the Shield Wall perk(s) which proves that it must be different than just 50% reduction globally. Would be nice to clear this up, thanks. — Unsigned comment by 88.132.45.92 (talk) at 01:50 on 29 December 2011

I don't think there is any real cap. One of my character got around 500 armor rating and almost every Block perk, and when I block an attack from an Ancient Dragon (a physical one, that is) I take almost no damage; if I don't block, I lose nearly 100 hp. Blocking with a two-handed weapon, however, isn't as effective, since none of the perks work for them. Elakyn 23:04, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

yeah I had the same question, I'd really appreciate more information, especially with regards to perk'd vs. unperk'd blocking. On the harder difficulty settings the damage you take can be beastly, and if active blocking helps, I want it, but I don't want to invest the perks if it isn't helpful beyond the standard 80% cap for armor. — Unsigned comment by 65.23.113.146 (talk) on January 9, 2012 12:07

This is not answer at all. The "cap" must exist obviously couse 100% blocking damage is just... :D

For example - I have all shields perk and enchanted ring with 40% block. Does ring really matter anything?

So - how much is at max ? --156.17.226.219 12:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

85% cap i think. combine with 80% damage resistance cap from armor rating = 97% damage resistance (98.5% damage resistance with berserk). sorry for bad english.

--Alcyone 05:21, 12 March 2012 (UTC) (←) A question I was unable to find answer for: How is the blocking effectiveness made? Does the shield quality matter? What is the equation for that? 95.82.185.235 01:00, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi everybody. I've been running around Skyrim with a shield, hoping I can protect myself from dragon breath and magic by blocking. The Elemental Protection perk should reduce my damage from dragon breath, but it soesn't seem to work. Why? I took damage, I started blocking, and I wasn't taking less damage. Is it useless to try to do this? — Unsigned comment by Kylaen (talk • contribs) at 18:24 on 18 June 2012

It should work as advertised, but maybe you have to face the dragon?Sergio Morozov (talk) 12:09, 17 January 2013 (GMT)

So, to the matter of block effectiveness, what is the formula? From what I've read in various sources, it can be assumed that it is something like

EFF = (SHEFF + SK*SKMULT)*(1 + PERK)*(1 + ENCH)

or (less probable) EFF = SHEFF1*SK*SKMULT*(1 + PERK)*(1 + ENCH), or any other variant, capped at 85%?

EFF is [%] effectiveness,

SHEFF is [%] weapon/shield effectiveness (not listed anywhere here),

SHEFF1 is dimensionless weapon/shield effectiveness (not listed anywhere here),

SK is skill,

SKMULT is [% per skill point] skill multiplier (not listed anywhere here),

PERK is [%] increase from perks,

ENCH is [%] increase from enchantments.

Now, if we assume it is the formula, who is willing to verify it, list SHEFF for every shields and find out what SKMULT is? Sergio Morozov (talk) 12:09, 17 January 2013 (GMT)

So, I've taken upon myself to test Block effectiveness formula. Used commannds ForceaAV damageresist 0, Forceav Block XX, restoreactorvalue health 1000, Getavinfo health and Lydia to damage my character. Her damage was 100(+- 2) hitpoints, but it is a coincidence, could be 90, or 180, does not matter. Also used two shields - Light Imperial Shield and Spellbreaker. I've compiled results into an .xls file here http://vk.com/doc30198056_150358600?dl=fcec84dd52ed2238a6

It seems, that formula is EFF = (A + B * Skill) * (1 + Perk) where

A is effectiveness at 0 skill, looks like it slightly depends on the shield;

B is effectiveness increase per point of skill, also depends on the shield;

Skill is, well, block skill;

Perk is increased block percentage from perks, I've tested with 5 perks, so it was 0,5.

A was 50 for LImSh and 52 for Spellbreaker (but I am not sure, maybe equal for both)

B was 0,03 for LIMSh and 0,12 for Spellbreaker

I'd really appreciate if someone with CK could look into item parameters for shields and tell if indeed they are like that. Because I can imagine different formulas giving the same results. Oh, EFF is capped at 85% (I got 86% due to rounding errors, it seems) and I did not test enchantments. Sergio Morozov (talk) 19:38, 19 January 2013 (GMT)

So I've conducted even more research. I was unable to run CK, so used SkyEdit. Shields have no any "Blocking Effectiveness".

So A and B values from my previous formula should be derived from some of other shield's paramenters. Most probable parameter is Armor Rating. I've conducted experiments with various shields. And got some data, which is shown in .xls http://vk.com/doc30198056_150509538?dl=fcec84dd52ed2238a6 below my older data.

Looks like EFF = (Some_Base_Value + Armor_Rating * AR_Multiplier * (1+Skill * Skill_Multiplier))

That is, EFF from base_value is not increased by skill, but EFF from AR is.

Also when blocking with weapon, skill has almost no effect.

For skill 000 with a shield I got EFF (AR) = 43,4 + 0,23 * AR

For skill 100 with a shield I got EFF (AR) = 42,5 + 0,57 * AR

For blocking with a weapon I got EFF(0)=27,5 EFF(100)=30 (maybe both are 30, actually)

So I suspect the formulae are

For blocking with a shield EFF % = 100*fShieldBaseFactor + fShieldScalingfactor * AR * {fBlockSkillMult - [(100 - Skill) / 100]}

For blocking with a weapon EFF % = 100*fBlockWeaponBase + Something_insignificant

For a shield this will net EFF % = 100*0,45 + 0,2*AR*(1+Skill/100)

For a weapon this will net EFF % = 100*0,3 + Something_insignificant.

Any feedback? Specifically, about adding formulae into the article. ^_^ Sergio Morozov (talk) 12:56, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

My feedback is this looks like precious data for us, and what a great contribution.

I'm not much of a layout person, but my thoughts are:

Go from very simple to details: Blocking effectiveness is (generally) most importantly determined by x and w.

(Perhaps another line or two of information in narrative form.) Then, "Data from in-game testing suggests that block effectiveness is determined by the following formula: Then, whatever. Just put it, put it in a table, put it in a show/hide. I dunno. But put it!!! Someone else way re-arrange it once it's there. If they mess it up, raise again here. Awesome work! --JR (talk) 15:04, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

I've made an edited version of "defensive blocking" section here http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:Sergio_Morozov/Sandbox_Miscellaneous_Perks and will wait a bit until editing the article itself... Because I am sure I've read somewhere, that weapons block better than hide shield, but I can not find where, nor do my guessed formulas show it. Sergio Morozov (talk) 16:50, 20 January 2013 (GMT)

Sergio: I think this info is better moved to the article as is. It contains a lot of useful info. Let's not let it stay buried on the talk page. If there is a detail or two you're not sure about, then either place a vn tag in the text, or add a new talk section asking for input. For th formulas, I recommend show/hide. If a minor detail is not 100% correct, let it be corrected on the page instead of consigned to Oblivion. My opinions. --JR (talk) 01:52, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

For the sake of future generations, I must confess, that my .xls files contain a slight error - damage was found to be 106 rather than 100. this changes things a bit. My edit to the article was done according to these new values, not the old ones. Of course, more data would be welcome. Sergio Morozov (talk) 06:07, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

So wait... you are saying that all the values that you just put in the article are all incorrect? Jeancey (talk) 06:12, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

Why would I put them in the article then? =D No, I am saying, that values in .xls are a bit off (should use 106 damage instead of 100), but in the article edit I used corrected values. Of course, they are not "100% correct", just an approximation of what was written into game code as seen from the outside. Sergio Morozov (talk) 07:44, 21 January 2013 (GMT)

Actually, with corrections mentioned above, I got DR = 0,5625*AR + 45 and DR = 0,5357*AR + 45,747 for skill 100 (first is when I fix "45". second when I let Excel decide) and DR = 0,2771*AR + 45 and DR = 0,2186*AR + 46,628 for skill 0. But in-game test are not reliable when it comes to precision, so in the article values are (somewhat roughly) rounded. Anyway, I think this is better than no formula at all. Sergio Morozov (talk) 15:47, 23 January 2013 (GMT)

Just wanted to mention the "Game Settings" that are probably related to blocking:

• fBlockAmountWeaponMult=1.0
• fBlockMax=0.7
• fBlockPowerAttackMult=0.66
• fBlockSkillMult=2.0
• fBlockWeaponBase=0.3 -- this is probably the base weapon block amount
• fBlockWeaponScaling=0.2
• fShieldBaseFactor=0.45 -- main page says this is the base shield block amount
• fShieldScalingFactor=0.2

Theqmann (talk) 04:35, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

There was some edit which changed formulas... I think it is wrong. More precisely, it makes impact of skill for weapon blocking much more significant than for shield blocking... Could someone test this? Sergio Morozov (talk) 16:50, 4 February 2014 (GMT)

Blocking Skill and Percentage of Blocked Damage

The second paragraph of subsection "Defensive Blocking" needs to be removed. I recently ran several tests on normal difficulty settings using a Bear and my character with no armor other than an untempered Hide Shield in one series and an untempered Dragonscale Shield in another series with 100 Block skill no Shield Wall perks and no Fortify Block enchantments. The damage blocked was consistently approximately 17-18 points with the Hide Shield and Dragonscale Shield from the 45 point damage attacks. Taking the minor physical damage resistance afforded by the armor rating from the shields it would appear that the blocked damage is roughly 15 points out of 45 or 33.333%.

That also invalidates the last two sentences of the last paragraph in the same subsection, as the only way you could cap blocked damage without several items of Peerless Blocking is by having most or all of the Shield Wall perks, and "medium" Block skill combined with Shield perks clearly won't get you to 85% blocked damage as not even 100 Block skill with 5 Shield Wall perks will do that (also tested under the above conditions but with 5 Shield Wall perks).

Unless someone can produce contrary test results under the same conditions I'll make the edits by the end of the week unless anyone can provide reason to do otherwise. --DagmarH (talk) 06:33, 7 January 2013 (GMT)

It's noted DagmarH has thus updated the article. Great contribution! --JR (talk) 07:04, 8 January 2013 (GMT)

85% or 80%?

Here it says the cap is 85% but over at the Fortify Block page it says its 80%. I'm assuming the 85% is correct but I can't verify that myself.  Valadez   Talk  Contributions  21:02, 10 January 2013 (GMT)

You can find out how the 85% was determined by reading the Deflect Arrows and Shield Wall section above on this page. --DagmarH (talk) 03:32, 11 January 2013 (GMT)

Note: DagmarH has updated the current page to show the correct cap as 85%. --JR (talk) 13:10, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

Perk descriptions that say "with a shield" to be taken literally?

The descriptions of Deflect Arrows, Elemental Protection, Block Runner (in my game v1.8, though not on the wiki here), and Shield Charge imply that their effects are only applied when blocking with shields, not weapons or torches or fists. Is this true? — Unsigned comment by 67.71.128.222 (talk) at 06:08 on 13 January 2013

Aside from Block Runner, which also works with weapons, yes, they only apply if you have shield equipped. Elakyn (talk) 08:58, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

I'm inclined to take Elakyn's word for it, based on our prior interactions, and have updated the article with this information. I took a guess at the best/right way to do this, so someone might change how or where the information is provided. How about Quick Reflexes? Anyone know? --JR (talk) 12:06, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

Thanks, JR. After a bit of testing I can now confirm that Elemental Protection only activates with a shield equipped. Shield Charge doesn't normally work with weapons alone. HOWEVER, I just found out that repeatedly pressing the block button while sprinting does trigger the same effect (that is, throwing people in the air). This is most likely a glitch, but pretty useful with a two-handed weapon. Quick Reflexes works just as well with or without shield. Elakyn (talk) 13:45, 13 January 2013 (GMT)

FYI, the Perk entry for these are:

• DeflectArrows says it needs: WornHasKeyword(ArmorShield)==1 and IsBlocking==1

• This perk will set the arrow blocking amount to 100%

• ElementalProtection says it needs: WornHasKeyword(ArmorShield)==1 and IsBlocking==1

• This perk will multiply the Incoming Spell Magnitude by 0.5 if it is MagicDamageFire or MagicDamageShock or MagicDamageFrost

• QuickReflexes says it needs: player IsBlocking==1 and enemy IsPowerAttacking==1 to apply the PerkQuickReflexes spell

• The PerkQuickReflexes spell applies a PerkQuickReflexesEffect mag 0.05 (Slow Time)

• BlockRunner says it sets: bPerkShieldCharge=1
• ShieldWall multiplies "Mod Percent Blocked" by 1.X where X is 1 to 5 for rank
• ShieldCharge has no usage requirements, and gives the shieldChargeSpell ability

• The spell/ability has these requirements: IsRidingMount==0 and IsSprinting==1 and IsBlocking==1
• The spell/ability will reduce the target Stamina by 10

• DisarmingBash says it needs: IsAttackType==PowerAttackBash to apply the PerkBashDisarm spell

• The PerkBashDisarm spell has a 50% effect chance to apply a 99 mag Disarm, and has the flag "No Absorb/Reflect"
• The Disarm effect requires HasKeyword(ActorTypeGhost)==0

Theqmann (talk) 05:11, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Deflect Arrows Hit Box

I've read that the size of the "hit box" for all shields for the Deflect Arrows perk is the same regardless of the size of the shield mesh. Can someone provide an independently verifiable method of determining this via the Creation Kit or game data?--DagmarH (talk) 07:13, 5 February 2013 (GMT)

Having made and tested several shield mods, I'm 99% sure that as far as arrows are concerned, the hit box of a shield is determined by bhkBoxShape under bhkCollisionObject in the nif mesh file of the shield. You can easily adjust the size of the hit box of the shield in Nifskope by changing the x y and z values in bhkBoxShape. In the render window the x axis is marked by the green arrow, y by the red arrow, and z by the blue arrow. However it appears that even if you make the hit box of the shield ridiculously large, there'll still be a small chance whereby arrows may randomly go straight through and hit you in the face. This may be due to an unknown game setting entry in the Creation Kit, or it could also be a Havok bug. Note: Some shields (i forgot which ones) have bhkConvexShape in place of bhkBoxShape in their nif files. --H1zchan (talk) 11:47, 5 January 2015 (GMT)

in game testing data

this is from another forum http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/65509623 search block can we use this, or would that be plagiarism? the hoops i had to dump through to post that link :p Dawn (talk) 06:26, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

Traditionally I do not believe we use information from other fora on this site, both for accuracy concerns and for attribution reasons. Anything we did use would require verification in-game or via the Creation Kit before adding it to the page. This message was written by Rosalia ^{Tell her what you think...}_{...of her work here.} 06:28, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

The current formula is definitely wrong, for example the fBlockWeaponScaling with value of 0.2 isn't used anywhere in the formula Dawn (talk) 07:41, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

And fBlockWeaponBase value is 0.3, not 30 Dawn (talk) 07:43, 28 February 2013 (GMT)

With all those corrections, I've decided to make a quick test. Block skill 0, Spellbreaker (AR 38), Damage without blocking 19.5, Damage with blocking 8.5, Reduction 11, Percent reduction 56%. Current formula gives PR=45+0.2*38=52.6. Previous formula gives PR=45+0.27*38=55.3... Yea... Needs more testing... Sergio Morozov (talk) 12:37, 5 February 2014 (GMT)

Very well. I wanted to prove new formulas are wrong and my old ones are right. So I conducted a new in-game test. I zeroes my health regen rate. This eliminated all slight differences in damage from hit to hit, which caused errors previously. For shield block I used Lydia (lv 50) to shoot me with iron arrows from ebony bow. My Heavy armor was 20 and I only had ebony shield (AR 32) equipped. Legendary difficulty. Damage 192.70.

Damage when blocking with skill 000 93.65. Resisted damage 099.05. Blocking percentage 51.4. Assuming 51.4=45+X*AR -> X=0.2.

Damage when blocking with skill 100 75.15. Resisted damage 117.55. Blocking percentage 61.0. Assuming 61=45+X*AR(1+Y*Skill) and X=0.2 -> Y=0.015.

Okay, first formula seems good. For weapon block test I made Lydia smash me with ebony warhammer (turned out I could not block arrows with a sword). Damage 172.02.

Damage when blocking with skill 000 111.81. Resisted damage 60.21. Blocking percentage 35.0. Assuming 35.0=30+X*WR and X=0.2 -> WR=25.

Damage when blocking with skill 100 098.91. Resisted damage 73.11. Blocking percentage 42.5. Assuming 42,5=30+X*WR(1+Y*Skill) and X=0.2 and WR=25 -> Y=0.015;

So, indeed, there is a mistake - weapons get 25, not 60 for their "ArmorValue" equivalent.

87.228.67.6 16:18, 5 February 2014 (GMT)

Yea, forgot to log in, but that was me.Sergio Morozov (talk) 16:19, 5 February 2014 (GMT)

Sergio, are your numbers calculated a.) with no block perks or fortifications, and b.) with the latest patch? I'm asking because 61% seems generous for legendary difficulty, though I suppose it's all relative . . . Thanks. MrC (talk) 19:48, 16 February 2014 (GMT)

Shield Wall Perks Unneeded for Shield Users?

(PS3 user) Because according to the formula in the article, and if my math is correct (a BIG if), every shield in the game hits the damage cap of 85% somewhere between a Block skill level of 40 (Daedric shield = 83.5%) and a level of 50 (Hide shield = 84%) and that's without fortify enchantments or "Shield Wall" perks. Or did I screw up? MrC (talk) 03:35, 7 February 2014 (GMT)

No, your math is incorrect =]

BlockingShieldPercentage = 45 + 0.2 * Shield Base Armor Rating * (1 + Skill * 0.015)) * (1 + Shield Wall perk) * (1 + Fortify Block Enchantment)

Hide shield has AR=15, Skill 100:

45+0.2*15*(1+100*0,015) = 45+15*0,5 = 52.5 %

With 5 perks 52.5*1.5=78,75 % - Even with all 5 perks Hide Shield does not reach the cap.

Daedric Shield has AR=36, Skill 100:

45+0.2*36*(1+100*0,015) = 45+36*0,5 = 63 %

Sergio Morozov (talk) 16:21, 15 February 2014 (GMT)

This is why I don't do math. I thought the hide shield (at 100 skill) would have been: 45 + 0.2 * 15 * (1 + 1.5) = 45 + 0.2 * 15 * (2.5) = 45 + 3 * (2.5) = 48 * 2.5 = 120! Again, this is why I don't do math. I always do things in the wrong sequence. Thanks, Sergio. MrC (talk) 17:13, 16 February 2014 (GMT)

Just wanted to add that it would be helpful to [bracket] everything in the formula after "45 + " for us math-challenged types, i.e. 45 + [0.2 * Shield Base Armor Rating * (1+ Skill . . . etc.)]. On a related note, will adding a ring of major blocking (25%) to the daedric shield make the 85 cap (63 + 25%= 88%) or will it only make it to @75% (i.e. 63 + 25% of 63)? MrC (talk) 17:59, 16 February 2014 (GMT)

1)I added different brackets to the formula.

2) According to the formula it would add 25% of 63, 63*(1+0.25)=78,75, also note, part of how enchantments work "needs more in-game testing" Sergio Morozov (talk) 18:31, 16 February 2014 (GMT)

Thanks. MrC (talk) 18:34, 16 February 2014 (GMT)

Blocking with off-hand weapon (bug?)

I discovered that you actually can block with a weapon in your left hand. The process is quite cumbersome and not practically useful, and probably classifiable as a bug. The steps are as follows: 1) Equip a one-handed weapon into your right hand. 2) Block with the weapon. 3) While holding block, open the favorites (inventory will likely work as well) and equip a one-handed weapon in the left hand. 4) While still holding block, exit the menu opened in step 3. Your right hand weapon will be lowered as normal, but your left hand weapon will now be raised in a manner suitable for blocking. Additionally, you will move your hand as if blocking with a shield when attacked, but it is unknown if this levels or is affected by the block skill. Releasing the block button, however, will lower your weapon, and further attempts to block will result in attacks with the off-hand weapon, and you must repeat the previously mentioned process to initiate another block. 165.91.12.243 02:08, 17 February 2014 (GMT)

Blocking XP

In regards to the recent VN added to the page, I did test the XP given by blocking with and without Custom Fit, and there was a noticeable difference. This should probably be independently verified, however, as there could always have been other things I wasn't thinking of that affected my results. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 22:36, 6 March 2014 (GMT)

What about damage reduction, was it too affected by custom fit in your test? Sergio Morozov (talk) 07:11, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

The displayed value was higher, but I wasn't especially paying attention to whether there was an actual increase in damage reduction. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 11:54, 7 March 2014 (GMT)

So I tested the damage reduction. As in previous tests, made Lydia shoot me with ebony bow, iron arrows, she is at max. level. Forced my Healrate and Healratemult to 0. Checked my health, for every value below she did the same damage 3 times in a row. For a given situation (block 73, hide shield) I got: with two perks (custom fit+matching set {light armor}), one perk (custom fit), no perks:

Damage, not blocking: 112.18 | 121.77 | 135.15

Damage, blocking: 54.65 | 59.32 | 65.84

Blocking damage reduction, %: 51.284| 51.285| 51.284

For me it looks like blocking damage reduction is not affected by those perks. I failed to find a command to see skill xp, could you tell it to me? ("getav blockskilladvance" shows ">>0" always)

Sergio Morozov (talk) 13:24, 9 March 2014 (GMT)

Unfortunately, they removed it in 1.9. The only way to figure out the relative XP is to get hit a number of times by something that's doing consistent damage, then repeat that test with and without Custom Fit. You can do this through the console with addperk or removeperk, if you're on a PC, or you can do it naturally if you have enough XP and and an available skill point so that you can test, reload and buy it, then retest. If you're on a PC, you can also indirectly figure out the absolute amounts by doing this same sort of thing, comparing the amount of XP you get over a number of hits to the number you add in player.advskill. It's a PITA, and a little imprecise because you're comparing them visually on the skill bar, but it will get you there. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 01:25, 10 March 2014 (GMT)

So, I have made my dead thrall shoot me. And blocked.

When I had Matching Set and my "damageresist" was well above cap, I leveled from 75 to 76 block in 16 hits.

When I had no Matching Set, but my "damageresist" was still above cap, I leveled from 75 to 76 block in 16 hits.

When I had Matching Set and my "damageresist" was very small (58), I leveled from 75 to 76 block in 22 hits.

I'd assume that it does not matter if you have perks for the sake of themselves, but it takes into account (for block XP) not the reduction of damage by blocking, but overall reduction of damage. So, the higher is one's armor rating, the more blocking XP he will get. Perks help by improving armor rating. So does better armor. So does armor skill. Would you word it nicely and make edits to the article? 5.35.25.146 15:21, 13 March 2014 (GMT)

Whoops, forgot to log in. Sergio Morozov (talk) 15:22, 13 March 2014 (GMT)

Okay, I've updated the page with what I understood from the above, but please double-check it and make sure my understanding is correct. Also, for future reference, if you forget to sign, you can just wipe out the IP signature and re-sign your message after logging in. We generally take it on faith that you are who you say you are when that happens, but if there's any question, admins can all verify that it was really the same IP address. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 19:47, 13 March 2014 (GMT)

Armor skills do not increase because of Blocking

You cannot block if you want to level up Heavy Armor or Light Armor, so I made the update on the article. Whoever says otherwise is a liar, cheater, or broke their game.— Unsigned comment by 72.184.242.157 (talk) at 14:38 on 01 May 2014

Point of it All

This might be a silly question, considering how much I've played this game, but is there any REASON to block in Skyrim? In Oblivion, blocking an attack staggered an enemy, allowing you to get a free hit in. This let you take less damage but give out the same amount than if you didn't block. In Skyrim, blocking doesn't seem to slow the enemy down at all, so you take less damage but give out none - essentially, the enemy gets a minor but free hit on you. Have I been playing this game wrong for more than a year?71.224.204.238 05:16, 18 May 2014 (GMT)

Blocking is more realistic in Skyrim than before. While you will always take some damage the idea is to block the enemy from really hurting you, then retaliating with a stronger hit. You can bash them with a shield before you attack and they cannot defend your attack, and there is usually time for two free hits. So defend, bash, attack, attack, repeat. You can even bash before they attack you and if you do it correctly and methodically, stagger-lock them for an entire fight. Some higher-level enemies have a reduced capacity to be staggered so it won't always work on them. Also, block works even if your defense is maxed at 85%, it will reduce the 15% by whatever value you have up to block's cap of 85%. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 10:02, 18 May 2014 (GMT)

Many thanks. Perhaps this should go in the article? 71.224.204.238 02:32, 19 May 2014 (GMT)

Buggy Shield Charge

So after I get to Solstheim with my character Shield Charge breaks, and by breaks I mean it will either not work at all or it will toggle itself on and stay on knocking over enemies on its own without any input from me at all until I either unequip my shield or it turns itself off again, so is there anything I can do on Xbox besides resetting the game to fix this since that does nothing? Wrath425 (talk) 00:19, 19 July 2014 (GMT)

Edit I found two fixes that isn't listed as far as I know, if you reset the block skill through the Waking Dreams Black Book or "I haven't tested this yet" making it Legendary will fix the Buggy perk and it can be done by console players like my self. Wrath425 (talk) 00:39, 29 July 2014 (GMT)

Removing Block Runner effect/perk?

Hoping I can get a response here - if not, could somebody redirect me to a more reasonable source? I chose to take the block runner perk on a recent character, as I have in the past, but I have decided to go back on my decision. I feel like moving slower while taking a lower stance and holding a shield up is more realistic. Upon using the console command player.removeperk 106253, however, the perk's effects remained, and still remain, despite the skill tree showing otherwise. I thought perhaps this was because the perk adds some sort of permanent, yet invisible, "Active Effect" in a fashion similar to the Magic Resistance perk in the Alteration tree, but I couldn't find any ID/information of any sort on this. I suppose what I'm asking is as follows: If I've taken Block Runner on my character already, how the heck do I remove the perk's effects if removing the perk itself doesn't do it? Thanks. 71.61.181.115 05:31, 24 August 2014 (GMT)

The effect is "somewhat permanent", for lack of a better term. Even resetting it as a legendary skill doesn't seem to work reliably. That said, there's something that resets it at some point, but I haven't figured out what. It may be accidentally reset via another skill tree or perhaps adding/removing mods forces it to reset. <shrugs> All I can tell you for sure is that at some point, the perk has reset for me on more than one occasion. If/when it does for you, just don't take it again. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 01:45, 25 August 2014 (GMT)

OK, the CK says the perks function is a "Set Boolean Graph Variable" - "Select Text" - "bPerkShieldCharge"... But I'm not getting any wiser from that xD. Maybe you could try to add the perk a second time (like switching the boolean variable to its prevous state). That's all I'm able to advise... -- SarthesArai ^Talk 15:51, 25 August 2014 (GMT)

I'm pretty sure that's an internal variable that gets changed to True every time you take the perk. I know it doesn't just get flipped, because I don't lose it if I take the perk again. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 20:46, 25 August 2014 (GMT)

(←) Player.sgv bPerkShieldCharge 0 seems to solve the problem by disabling the effect. Setting the variable back to 1 will revert the change. — Unsigned comment by 213.119.71.83 (talk) at 09:54 on 18 April 2016

Good solution! Thanks for posting it. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 16:50, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Not sure if this is the right section, but

While block-practicing (seeking out a snow-bear, and simply blocking its attacks), after a few minutes of this, all nearby horkers suddenly came at me. This could be related to anything, afaik, but it's never happened before, and it happened while i was litterally doing nothing at all - except hold the mouse-button down for a few minutes, in order to keep my block.

Someone should make a complete compilation of Elder Scrolls bugs, alphabetically, volumes 1-50 for the letter A, 50-100 for the letter B, etc.

Base Armor Rating and Tempering

Just to check, the base armor rating of a shield (for determining how effective it is for blocking and bashing) is determined by its type and cannot be changed after the shield is generated, right? Or does it change when tempered? I'm curious because I want to know if tempering, say, a steel shield up to daedric armor values will affect its blocking/bashing quality, or if that's set in stone and there's no way I can affect it. - 74.83.238.53 02:32, 20 January 2015 (GMT)

You're correct, the base armor rating does not change. Unless your armor is maxed out, you'll still see some damage reduction just from the overall armor rating increase, but the actual amount coming from the Block skill won't change no matter how high you temper it. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 03:46, 20 January 2015 (GMT)

Thanks kindly. So for purposes of blocking, tempering means nothing. If armor rating isn't a concern for you (for example, having vastly over-tempered armor in other locations, possible via perks and recursive enchanting/alchemy loops, or use of the console), you may as well grab a daedric shield and slap a Fortify Blocking enchantment on it, or use a unique shield with a secondary effect you find useful. Anywho, thanks for clearing that up for me. - 74.83.238.53 17:26, 20 January 2015 (GMT)

Questioning the statement " all weapons can hit the block cap with 100 skill and 5 ranks of shield wall"

Hi all. I have done no testing on this myself, but if the given equations are assumed to be correct then no weapon can hit the cap with the above criteria unless aided by a fortify block enchant and/or potion. The "most shields" thing is true enough at 8 of 12(hide, elven, iron and banded iron will not work, but steel, dwarven, orcish, ebony, dragonplate, daedric, glass and dragonscale will). I think that calls for some kind of edit on the article page. — Unsigned comment by ‎173.19.78.80 (talk) at 04:04 on 14 February 2015 (GMT)

Block effectiveness

According to my test results:

1. It's (1 + BlockMod)*(1 + BlockPowerMod) and not (1 + BlockMod + BlockPowerMod). I'm sure of this.

2. The block effectiveness is calculated not only differently with shields and weapons/torchs, but also differently with light attack and power attack.

2.1. I've only tested it with 100 block skill, but the formula of shield blocking light attack is Base AR x 0.5 + 45, which matches the formula {45 + [0.2 * Shield Base Armor Rating * (1 + Skill * 0.015)]}. The formula of shield blocking power attack is Base AR x 0.33 + 29.7. It's odd, I know, but it fits my data perfectly. I tested it with eight types of shields using Mjoll , Frost Atronach, and Dremora Lord.

2.2. My tests with Mjoll, Frost Atronach, and Dremora Lord suggest that the weapon block effectiveness is dependent on the damage dealt by your enemy. Against Frost Atronach, it's 30% with light attack and 19.8% with power attack. Against Mjoll and Dremora Lord (I gave them both a dragonbone battleaxe), it's 43% (light) and 28.38% (power). I also did some tests a long time ago using a draugr only with light attack, it's 38.5%.

3. Suggestions for future testers.

3.1. Player.SetAV HealRateMult 0 and Player.SetAV AbsorbChance 100. Equip the shield/weapon to be tested, Player.ForceAV DamageResist -25 * [Number of armors (shield included) you have on], save and reload then start testing - This makes obtaining accurate data much easier.

3.2. Choose enemies with 100 weapon skill, so that their damage output is likely to be some whole number. Make sure your enemy doesn't have the critical damage perk if they are using swords or bows. Also the perks for axes and maces might also affect the results, but if you have DB dlc then the bleeding effect of dragonbone axes are bugged so they are convenient. If you are testing against power attacks, be aware that standing power attack might have higher damage than other types of power attacks because of some perk. Mjoll is great since she doesn't have it, but Dremora Lord does.

Heya! Nice find! Looks like for power attack blocking there is a variable "fBlockPowerAttackMult=0.66", and your input suggests effectiveness is multiplied by it in case of power attack! 89.222.164.108 03:50, 13 May 2015 (GMT) /Sergio/

Possible fix to Quick Reflexes bug (PC only)

In the bugs section for Block it says:

"Sometimes, when fighting with the Quick Reflexes perk, the slow time effect will continue indefinitely if you shield bash an opponent while they are power attacking. A variety of methods can be used to break the effect, however the only fool-proof way is to stand in front of an enemy and block until they power attack you again."

I've never edited a wiki, so I probably wouldn't be able to do it right. Would someone be able to add the following bullet when they have time?

Entering "sgtm 1" in the console seems to fix this (PC only).

Thank you in advance. — Unsigned comment by 24.117.98.89 (talk) at 00:43 on 31 March 2015

Block Cap

Recent changes to the page have suggested that the block cap is 70%, which seems reasonable based on the CK value cited. However, in-game testing agrees with the original information on the page (and the IP's reversion thereto): the block cap is actually 85%. To check this, I set my healrate to 0, pumped my block to 100 and then went out wearing only an elven shield, whose base armour rating is 21. This didn't seem to be enough to reach any kind of cap, so I pumped 5 perks into Shield Wall which seemed to max out the rating. With health given to two decimal places in the console, I calculated the block cap at almost exactly 85% between hits where I didn't raise my shield and hits where I did. I'm starting this discussion, however, in case there's anything I failed to consider in my testing. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 16:26, 12 April 2015 (GMT)

I have yet to comment in a talk page, so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right.

I tested this myself as well with all perks and a daedric shield. I setav block to 200 (not clear if this does anything), used modav damageresist to eliminate the armor from the shield, healrate at 0 and compared attacks from a bandit whose stamina was set to 0. Damage was very consistent and the math resulted in 85% reduction.

My question is, what does fBlockMax in creation kit do? If I want to change the cap for block, what values do I need to change? – Makanar  ^(talk) 15:46 21 April 2015 (EST)

That you'd have to do experiments to figure out. It's entirely possible that fBlockMax doesn't actually come into play anywhere. It'd be interesting to see if the block cap changes if you change that number. Glad to hear you got 85% as well, though, as you did a couple of things that I didn't. I think we can call that number confirmed then. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 21:00, 21 April 2015 (GMT), as

Lowered fBlockMax by half, to .35 and did 85% was still blocked. It would seem that the block cap is actually governed by fPlayerMaxResistance. Changing this value from 85 to 50 resulted in only 50% of dmg being blocked. This is also the value that controls max elemental and magic resistance though right? Makanar  ^(talk) 14:29 22 April 2015 (EST)

I believe so. It makes me wonder if there was a cut & paste error in their code and someone just forgot to change the variable involved. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 19:40, 22 April 2015 (GMT)

If you were to look into old Excel sheet posted here (above somewhere), there is a picture for spellbreaker and 100 skill and 5 SW perks - and it caps at 85 too. Cheers! 89.222.164.108 03:53, 13 May 2015 (GMT) /Sergio/

Disarming Bash Level Limit?

I encountered a random hostile orc on the road (level = PC x 1.1, if I'm not mistaken, which in my game would put her at level 157). I've power bashed her about 30 times, but have yet to disarm her. Looking around the discussion page, I found the following formula (provided by Theqmann):

• DisarmingBash says it needs: IsAttackType==PowerAttackBash to apply the PerkBashDisarm spell

• The PerkBashDisarm spell has a 50% effect chance to apply a 99 mag Disarm, and has the flag "No Absorb/Reflect"
• The Disarm effect requires HasKeyword(ActorTypeGhost)==0

If I understand this correctly, it seems that Disarming Bash only works on NPCs up to level 99 (which would explain why I can't disarm my orc friend). If that is the case, I think it would be good to make a note of it on the Block page. Username12345 (talk) 03:01, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Quick Reflexes - Recreating the slow time indefinitely bug

I seem to be able to recreate the Quick Reflexes slow time indefinitely bug consistently by doing the following.

1.) loading a fresh instance of skyrim. 2.) Wait 96 hours in a row. 3.) Fight something that will use power attacks and use block.

Can anyone else recreate this? — Unsigned comment by FiftyBucks (talk • contribs) at 04:34 on 8 March 2016 (UTC)

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