Oblivion talk:Easter Eggs/Archive 3

This is an archive of past Oblivion talk:Easter Eggs discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Christianity Reference

One of the places you can discover (by the swampy ave) is called "Vahtacen", which sounds surprisingly like "Vatican".

Well for starters, the Vatican city is the capital of Catholicism, not Christianity. But I highly doubt that this is anything but a coincidence in names unless there's something else that can be found relating to religion. Darkle 12:09, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

C.S Lewis Reference

The quest where a whole village's people are invisible is a reference to the part in 'The Voyage of the Dawntreader' by C.S. Lewis. Read Chapter 9 of that book and you'll know what I mean. The village is north west of the Imperial Prison sewers. Go into Roxey Inn to get a rumour and mapmarker about it.

Random areas2

I also found a strange grove with dead trees with skulls in the middle on the border between Cyrodiil and Morrowind in the valus mountains. In the middle of the spooky grove was a chest with some minor random loot in it. Does this also pass as an easter egg?

I doubt it. In the console, type "sdt 0" then "tdt" and give the Pos: value of said grove. Others can see for themselves, but I doubt it's any egg. Rip-Saw 19:15, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

I found this is as well. To me it qualifies as an Easter Egg, but I'm afraid to add it to the article without consulting others. It's definitely an unusual spot: I can't think of anywhere else in the game where you run across cobwebs outdoors, and the three dead trees flanking the grove are in total contrast to the surrounding (healthy) forest. Monigan 12:36, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

It's already on the site as Dark Grove. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:10, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

Carrots

Not sure if this is an easter egg, but there is a popular urban myth that 'carrots let you see in the dark'. Perhaps there is a reference to this since at apprentice+ alchemy level, a carrot's second alchemy effect is Night Eye.--Willyhead 10:43, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

Ooh, I doubt that's accidental, but I dunno if it's an egg! Somercy 10:49, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

There is also another ingredient in the CS that never appears in the game, called the "Carrot of Seeing". It is identical to a regular carrot in all but name. Incidentally, it's not exactly an urban myth. Carrots contain large quanities of beta carotene, which gets metabolized into Vitamin A, which indeed aids in night vision. Now, a single carrot is by no means a substitute for a pair of infra-red goggles, but there is still some truth to the statement. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:22, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

Well, AFAIK, a shortage of vit A will impair your night vision, but if you're allready "up to speed" on your vitamins, eating carrots won't give you any better night vision. 83.109.85.160 11:51, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Rat

How is the rat in Lazare Milvan's basement an unfinished quest? --Aldage 21:11, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

As far as i know it isn't, I think it was put in for testing purposes and then never removed Volanaro 13:18, 1 February 2008 (EST)

SHEOGORATH QUEST

I've heard that if you finish the shivering isles main quest before you do the sheogorath shrine mission and then start it,instead of sheogorath you will hear haskill, he will remark that you are "praying to yourself" then give you the quest. I think this is amusing but I don't think it's true, can you verify this?

It's true that this happens. His speech is really pretty funny from what I remember. -- Darkle 23:24, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Dark brotherhood

I've heard that in the the mission "following a lead" if you take the mother's head and drop it or shove it in front of the traitor he will remark "is that...is that a head? Wait that's...but...excuse me brother I...I need time time to think". Is this true?

Yes that's true- it's in the 'notes' section here. However I wouldn't call it an Easter Egg, it's just hinting to you who the traitor is.--Willyhead 06:31, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

The Art of War Reference

Found in the game is a book called "The Art of War Magic." Remove the Magic and you will have The Art of War, a famous book by Sun Tzu. Further proof of this connection is found within the book, as both contain philosophies and strategies about war, however the In-Game book focuses on Magic, while the actual one focuses simply on warfare. --Magus Unius 23:12, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Skingrad Symbol

This may be just me but the Skingrad "Symbol" (whatever it is, just the symbol on the city guard's shields) is remarkably similar to the album art of A Perfect Circle......Would be awesome if there was some perfect circle fans in Bethesda.

The Assassinated Man

The "mark" in this quest, Francois Motierre, may be an allusion to French Playwright Jean-Baptiste Poquelin (more commonly know as Moliere) — Unsigned comment by 24.4.135.58 (talk)

Given the hundreds of names in the game, and the millions of names that have ever existed, coincidences between names are unavoidable and by themselves meaningless. There has to be some pretty clear similarities between the characters to make it more than just a random coincidence. --Nephele^Talk 02:29, 15 November 2007 (EST)

Culotte

I don't know if this is an easter-egg, but there is an Ayleid ruin by the name of culotte in oblivion, where the word culotte is French for breeches.-Mr. V 16:50, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Already been discussed... Here. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:03, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Correction: it was the word for breeches. The meaning of the word changed over times, and now culotte (except in compound words such as "sans-culotte" or "culotte courte" (a now-archaic term for shorts)) is briefs/panties -- which, originally, were called "petite culotte." This fascinating sartorial and linguistic lecture brought to you by Gez 02:52, 9 January 2008 (EST).

Might there be a connection between Wabbajack and Jabberwock?

I looked at the Easter Eggs page and didn't see this anywhere. The two words are strikingly similar, and Jabberwocky, a poem by Lewis Carroll is a nonsensical poem, therefore it would make sense to relate that to Sheogorath. In fact, the word Jabberwocky has been added to the English language meaning "non sense"

This is a good question, however, without verification by Bethesda it probably can't be proved.-Puddle 21:15, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

about skeletons of childrens...

Well, at least in one place in Shivering Isles (Vitharn) is children skeleton (in hands of statue inside castle). And I don't think that these skeletons was accidentally left - it was placed instead of actual children (whom was removed due to, er, controversy about players killing them). Wonder if in Fallout 3 they will remove children too? These wimps (game designers, not child)... --83.144.95.66 17:57, 22 November 2007 (EST)

Actually I've come across quite a few, just recently founds somewhat of partial remains of a baby at the mouth of Corbolo River east The Nibenay Basin inside Newt Cave (level 2 chapels of light).. Duex 12:48, 28 November 2007 (EST)

In the Shivering Isles there are mini skeletons which are different than children. However, there is a child in the Oblivion game. A young blond boy with a {name} and dressed in standard clothing is walking around Cheydinhal - he has a written dialogue but does not have an oral track to play with it - he looks at you and continues onward.

Any chance you could be running any mods that add children? --GuildKnight^Talk2me 23:15, 28 November 2007 (EST)

I concur. NPCs with written but not spoken dialogue are a tell-tale sign of mod-added content. Plus, many of us have pored over every minute detail in the Construction Set, and believe me, if there were children in Cheydinhal or anywhere else, we'd have found them by now. I'm pretty much certain this is from a mod. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:44, 28 November 2007 (EST)

I have to wonder why Bethesda removed (or chose not to add) children because of the controversy of child murder when they are perfectly happy to include child skeletons (who are, presumably - hopefully - dead).Robed Dawnbringer 16:27, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Don't forget that the Sanctuary Door depicts Sithis, the Night Mother, and their children. Plus, in her crypt/tomb, her skeleton has their children's skeletons surrounding it. Leo Star Dragon 1.

Umm... I might be wrong, but aren't the skeletons from the Shivering Isles actually pygmy skeletons? -Dark Brother92 02:07, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

The small skeletons in SI are pygmy skeletons, as is evidenced by somethings that escape my mind at this point, and the the Pygmy Skull in The Museum of Oddities quest.

The owner of the Museum states that the Shivering Isles were once inhabited by Pygmies, but they were all eaten by Grummites.Dr. Kilereren 00:05, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

On Morrowind

An obvious reference to the book "On Oblivion" in Morrowind, "On Morrowind" should be added.

That is not an Easter Egg. That's simply part of the whole Elder Scrolls world. You might as well claim that the appearance of Altmer in Oblivion is an Easter Egg because of their appearance in earlier ES games. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 02:27, 6 December 2007 (EST)

I disagree, its a pretty obvious referance to morrowind. In Morrowind the book was "On Oblivion" and now there is one called "On Morrowind", are you saying thats not a direct relationship between the two?

It's the same world! Morrowind is part of Tamriel just as Cyrodiil is so of course there are going to be books about it. The fact that the previous game is called Morrowind doesn't make this an egg! Easter eggs should be subtle references - such as a lot of what M'aiq says, for instance. A book about another province of the world is just geography. --Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 05:05, 9 December 2007 (EST)

Plus perhaps the minor factual detail that the book On Morrowind was introduced in the game Morrowind. It is one of hundreds of books that appeared in Morrowind and are now also available in Oblivion. It was added to the game of Morrowind in order to provide the player background information on that game's main quest. So there is no way you are ever going to convince me that the book's presence in Oblivion is some type of easter egg. --Nephele^Talk 13:07, 9 December 2007 (EST)

Fear of Vampires

When I was heading out of the sewers, I went to Vilverin as I always do to go get the armor from the bandits and the loot inside. While killing the bandits this time, I noticed the bedroll under the tent, outside the ruins. I looked closer and saw the book, The Immortal Blood, a book about vampires. Then when I looked at the bedroll again, I noticed a garlic cluster on it, which leads me to believe that the bandit had read the book, got freaked out about it, and placed the garlic to protect himself. Would this qualify as an Easter Egg?

No.

No not really, i think the developers of this game made it like that to make the NPC's seem more realistic within their thinking and fears. :)

Baragon the blade

In cloud ruler temple there is a breton blade called Baragon. Baragon was also a monster from several of the godzilla movies. I'm sure this is purely coincidental and can't think of any connection between the two, but i'm just interested.

Yeah lots of the blades have unusual names (see this discussion) but it still hasn't been decided if they're easter eggs.--Willyhead 06:46, 9 December 2007 (EST)

EverQuest

Uhh, I was just thinking that there are two possible EverQuest mentionings. 1. Talos plaza, which could be refering to the EverQuest god of Tallos Zek. 2. Inn of Ill Omen, which could be refering to an old Everquest zone, called the Lake of Ill Omen. I could just be taking a shot in the dark with it but, it is something to think about.

(Also, these could be disregarded, as there is no lake or other body of water near the Inn, and there is an extra L in correct spelling of Tallos. Like I said above, could just be taking shots in the dark.)

Neither Talos nor "ill omen" are rarities in fantasy stuff. There's a D&D setting where there is an evil god of natural disasters called Talos. I'm sure some elves would see this as more pertinent. But actually, this Talos is the divinized Tiber Septim. And in turn, his name (given how Tiber Septim commanded the Numidium) is much more probably a reference to this Talos than to any RPG setting out there.

--just a minor correction (not beating a dead horse) but the correct name in everquest is "Tallon Zek" so there is no way it can be a reference

Atraena

I asked Atraena in the Tiber Septim Hotel about rumors and she said "I heard theives broke into the Arcane University, the Imperial Legion Compound, and the Temple, all on the same night. Wait a minute let me do that again. I heard theives broke into the Arcane University, the Imperial Legion Compound, and the Temple, all on the same night." Glitch, easter egg, what do you make of it? — Unsigned comment by Cache (talk • contribs)

It's a glitch that affects multiple NPCs and is already documented at Oblivion:Glitches#Let me do that one again. --Nephele^Talk 20:54, 21 December 2007 (EST)

Perhaps this is simply an attempt by Bethesda to simulate the tendancy of gossip to grow and change.(My friend who heard it from a friend who's uncle's friend heard...) — Unsigned comment by 208.100.193.91 (talk) (Dark Soul)

addition to easter egg

(Moved from User Talk:Daveh)

i noticed that in the unrelated section of the easter egg page, the character who is writing to "dracula" is also an acronym for a famous vampire Alacard (Alac Ardius, just remove the "dius")...he has appeared in many anime movies and storylines...so instead of there being only one vampire for this easter egg there should be two! — Unsigned comment by 68.226.172.175 (talk)

It's actually spelled Alucard (which is "Dracula" spelled backwards). I suppose there could be a connection between "Alucard" and "Alac Ardius," but it seems tenuous. --NightStryke 20:22, 23 January 2008 (EST)

"Acronym". Don't you mean, "anagram"? ("NASA" would be an acronym.) --Leo Star Dragon 1

I don't know a whole lot about this "Alacard" character, but if he's a modern creation, it seems likely that his name is a reference to dracula. -Dark Brother92 02:14, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

I tend to agree...it's almost impossible to believe that the "Aluc Ard" portion of Aluc Cardius is unintentional. Plus they went out of their way to include the first name, but later refer to him only as "Captain Cardius", making it harder to pick up on. In any event, it is currently included in the Easter Egg main page, so probably not much point in debating it too long. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:09, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

A Familiar Pirate

For those of you that have purchased and downloaded the Thieves Den plug-in for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, a plug-in that gives you access to the Dunbarrow Pirates located in a cave underneath the Castle of Anvil. You may have noticed a pirate among your crew with a very familiar name, Jak Silver. This is in reference to Silverjack in the popular story, Treasure Island.--Sacredlaw 02:32, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Not really sure if it's an easter egg, but..

Could there be a connection between the Tiber River and Tiber Septim? My idea being that the Roman Empire was founded on the banks of the Tiber River and Tiber Septim is an Emporer? Not sure if it's strong enough, but maybe.

I don't think it's an Easter Egg. This is just another example of the Imperials being similar to the Romans. —Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 08:29, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Black Flag

Black Flag is a name of a popular band from a while ago and in The Thieves Den Plug in its the name of the ship is this and Easter Egg — Unsigned comment by Platypodge (talk • contribs) on 4 January 2008

"Black Flag" is this instance is probably just a reference to Pirates' ships being known for having black flags, i.e. the "skull & crossbones." Doesn't seem like an Easter Egg to me. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 23:40, 8 January 2008 (EST)

guildknight you are refering to the jolly roger which is the flag of the pirates and may come from the wording "joli rouge" french for pretty red. from rezeoth

Sorry, but I believe 'Jolly Roger' came from the Arabic word 'Ali Rajah', meaning King of the Seas. — Unsigned comment by 75.117.20.60 (talk) on 22 July 2008

Actually, there are several theories as to where the term "Jolly Roger" came from...but that's really irrelevant to the original point. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 17:40, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Giant Mudcrab

Going the way this goes, the current explanation for it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. This game is chocked FULL of easter eggs from Morrowind and other games, right? Well. It being based on the PS3, really doesn't make sense. It is my belief that it's a reference again to Morrowind. Because does M'aiq not talk about a Giant Mudcrab in Morrowind? I believe he does. But I don't really know for a fact, I'm just going by with what I've heard. I never could find him lol But either way. The current explanation doesn't really make a lot of sense.

• Oblivion came out in March '06, the E3 in question happened in May. This reference is bunk, I'm removing it. --75.33.84.240 12:23, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Another child skeleton

Found the pelvis and spine of a small child in Pillaged Mine. 70.49.204.73 18:56, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Ok but i don't see how that's en easter egg Volanaro 13:12, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Characters Shared

While playing Morrowind, I entered Dunirai Caverns and encountered an Altmer, who bears the same name and appearance as one in Oblivion. His name is Volanaro, and can be found in the Bruma Mages' Guild. I think this is probably an easter egg. — Unsigned comment by 72.51.204.43 (talk)

This is already discussed at both Oblivion's Volanaro and Morrowind's Volanaro. No, it's not an easter egg. An easter egg is a reference intentionally included by the developers and includes similarities in character, quest, or anything other than just the name. Here it's just a byproduct of the random name generator used to create character names. --Nephele^Talk 23:22, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Yes, it's not an easter egg but i don't think it's a byproduct because both are mages. (If Falanu Hlaluu had been appeared in MW, would you call it a byproduct?)

About the cleanup.

The information is fine, as far as I know, but the page is hard to read without problems. It would be nice if it was a little better arranged, maybe by region or something easily identifiable. I had someone on the IRC that needed help with the game, and I had to skim through the page at least a few times before realizing it wasn't there anymore.--Brandol 10:33, 1 February 2008 (EST)

I agree that finding information on the page can be difficult. I think that the problem could be tackled through adding titles for each easter egg. At the moment the page is made up of big chunks of information separated only by bullet points- the info on the page would be much easier to look up if titles were added. The only downside to this is that there are a lot of Easter eggs on the page, so adding a title for each one would take up a lot of space.--Willyhead 12:19, 1 February 2008 (EST)

The trouble is that a lot of the stuff on the page shouldn't be there. Look at the definition at the Easter Egg Archive - especially at the list of things that shouldn't be considered an egg - and then look at our page again. None of the items in the "Familiar Faces" section are easter eggs; all the Unfinished Quests should really be on a different page - they're not eggs either; The "Prior Elder Scrolls Game References" are mostly there for realistic background rather than a deliberate egg, and the Miscellaneous section is almost all trivia. By and large, the only actual Easter Eggs are in the "References Unrelated to TES" section, and half of those are incredibly dodgy. As part of a real cleanup, much of the content could be moved onto individual pages and much should just be killed. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:38, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Revamping this page has been discussed before (e.g., Oblivion talk:Easter Eggs/Archive 2#Break up page?). I basically agree with Rpeh: most of the information is just background information that belongs on individual pages, not on a central page like this. After most of the content has been moved to appropriate places, then it would be much easier to tackle making it easier to find the information that belongs on the page. As with many wiki projects, it's really just dependent upon someone who wants to spend the time tackling it. --Nephele^Talk 16:30, 1 February 2008 (EST)

This seems straight-forward enough that I'd be willing to do it. If I split the various sections into separate pages, is there some easy way of modifying/redirecting those links at the same time, or do I have to go through the "What Links Here" one-by-one to find out what needs to be changed? (And in the mean time, I assume the links would be broken...?) As an example of what I mean, see Oblivion:Helm_of_Oreyn_Bearclaw, which links to the Previous References section...if I make a new page of out of the section, can I change the link automatically? --Robin Hood 23:57, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Sorry, there isn't really any easy way to update all of the links. About the best that I can offer is bot help, but that will only help if there are a lot of identical references. For example, the bot could go through and replace all references to [[Oblivion:Easter Eggs#Prior Elder Scrolls Game References]] to [[Oblivion:Easter Eggs/Prior Elder Scrolls Game References]], or whatever name you choose for the new page. If you wanted to make the transition as seamless as possible, you could start by creating the new pages just as placeholders containing a redirect. Then give me a list of the old link -> new link translations that the bot needs to do. The bot could run through and do them; because the pages were created as redirects, the new links will work. When you get a chance to update the page, then the new links will still work because now the content is on that page.

It's not necessarily a perfect answer. That Helm of Oreyn Bearclaw link, for example, has a typo ("Elder Scroll" instead of "Elder Scrolls"), so the bot would skip it (on the other hand, the link is broken now, so any reorg won't be responsible for breaking it). Based on the previous discussions, it sounds like that info (if kept) would get moved to its own section, so the link on the page would actually need further refinement, e.g., [[Oblivion:Easter Eggs/Prior Elder Scrolls Game References#Helm of Oreyn Bearclaw]]. That type of case-by-case link updating is something the bot definitely cannot do. And there are a lot of "hidden" links within the page, for example Oblivion:Easter Eggs#Dead Troll; the bot can update those, too, but only if it is told about them and told what to change them into. Basically, at some point to be sure everything is working, a person will have to go through the "What Links Here" list and check each of those entries....

On the other hand, if you start by focussing on moving entries that aren't really easter eggs off of the page completely, that process should eliminate a lot of links to this page. For example, if you move the information about Helm of Oreyn Bearclaw onto the artifact's page then you delete the easter egg link completely. And I'd be inclined to say that's the most appropriate action in that case: most of the artifacts in Oblivion are items that have previously appeared in other games, and we don't list all of those other artifacts on the Easter Eggs page. And even if someone thinks that a list of repeat appearances is useful, I'd say that the list should just be a list of links, without any extra details. The details all belong on the artifact page, so that a reader who pulls up the artifact page finds all of the relevant information in that one place, and isn't directed to hunt for extra information buried in a hard-to-navigate Easter Eggs page.

Obviously revamp at that level is a fair bit of work. But that's probably the main reason it hasn't been done yet. If you (or anyone else) would like to start tackling it, it doesn't necessarily all need to be done in one fell swoop. Just gradually chipping away, moving one item at a time to a more appropriate article, will be progress, until hopefully what's left is more manageable. --Nephele^Talk 13:40, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Yeah, I think you're right about it being better to do it by-hand in the end. What I realized after I posted was that I don't have to break any links in the process...I just have to make a copy of the page first, then adjust the links before I delete the original content. If any changes are made to the original while I'm adjusting the links, I can always make parallel changes on the new page. And truthfully, there aren't THAT many links there to be fixed.

In terms of a "plan", I think what I'll do is move each of the major subsections to its own page and fix the links, then I'll worry about what format would look best on each page, and whether the content should be moved somewhere else (like the artifacts you mentioned). It might be a bit more work to do it this way in the end, but it saves having to carefully consider each entry before making any changes. If I get run over by a bus tomorrow, it will still be in a fairly logical, consistent format that others will understand and can readily modify, rather than potentially having some portions migrated and others not.

Anyway, barring any last-minute opinions, I'll get started on that tonight after work. --Robin Hood 14:08, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Vincente

Could Vincente Valtieri possibly be a reference to Vincent Valentine from Final Fantasy? They have very similar names, they look similar, and they're both vampires. Doesn't sound like a coincidence to me. 66.63.86.156 14:11, 1 February 2008 (EST)

Vincent Valentine from Final Fantasy VII isn't a vampire. It would be too broad to say that this is a reference to Vincent Valentine, because of the fact of Name Generator. There isn't much evidence to entirely back this claim up. --Brandol 04:30, 3 February 2008 (EST)

While Vincent isn't a vampire per se, he does sleep in a coffin. That's a very common vampire trait. 66.63.86.156 12:31, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Yes, but that really doesn't prove that they dedicated a character to such a reference. The only way you could make this an Easter Egg, if the character says or does something that would make reference to Vincent Valentine, in some shape or form.

In other words, this isn't a noteworthy, or even a possible Easter Egg.--Brandol 18:53, 3 February 2008 (EST)

I think that it's as much of a reference as the Lucien Lachance / Forever Knight 'easter egg' i.e. a similar sounding name, and a spurious similarity.

I agree 66.176.37.51 22:41, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

Leyawiin torture chamber

As we all know, Countess Alessia Caro has a thing about Argonians, and we've all heard the rumours about her torturing them at night. Nothing ever comes of this, though it is fairly easy to find her secret Argonian-torturing chamber in Leyawiin Castle, which comes complete with blood-spattered table, torture implements, and even a few chairs nicely arranged so that several people can sit around watching.

The Leyawiin torture chamber doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere else on uesp.net, not even in the page about the Ahdarji's Heirloom quest, where you'll pass through it if you take the secret passage to get to Alessia's bedroom. I'd have thought it's worth including somewhere? -- even if not here? Though I think this is the right place, given that it's only ever alluded to, and nothing is ever made of it.

On another note, I still wonder about Weebam-Na's obsession with rats. One of the archived discussion pages mentions Gimlet the Dwarf, in Terry Pratchett's books, who sells a variety of rat dishes in his restaurant -- I've gone and found a link to the Discworld wiki. On the other hand it could be a reference to a real-life restaurant -- I found this article discussing an experimental rat restaurant that opened in Guangzhou in ca. 1991 that sells lemon deep-fried rat, among many other rat dishes. These might be worth including even if just as speculations. Petrushka 05:03, 6 February 2008 (EST)

I didn't know about the torture rumors, and I've always wondered why there's a blood spattered table beneath the castle.... creepy! Yup, I think these must be linked and deserve a mention on the wiki but I'm not sure if it should be mentioned on the Easter eggs page or on the Countess's page. Maybe it could have a mention on both.--Willyhead 11:13, 6 February 2008 (EST)

The rumor is mentioned on the Countess' page and the torture chamber is mentioned a couple of times on the quest page. That's more than enough for a room with relevance only to that quest. It's certainly not an Easter Egg. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:38, 6 February 2008 (EST)

Guess I somehow missed it on the quest page. Oops. Petrushka 20:50, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Umbra

Umbra may be nother easter egg/reference. Umbra is a character in the Onslaught Cycle of the Magic: The Gathering book series. In the book, it (Umbra isn't really a male or female) is what is called an Unman, a living portal to some location within a castle in the book (read the story for more spefic details). Anyway, Umbra joins three other unmen to find bodies and in doing so, they have to kill 2 other characters in the book. They plan to do this by using thier edge of the portal and the other end, which is increadibly sharp (which would explain sword Umbra's increadable attack power), to behead the targets. They do this because they want souls and body's and the person that will do that wants the other 2 dead (this explains the soul trap ability)

• More likely, it's referencing the Latin word for shadow, umbra.
• Umbra is also the name of the shadow the moon leaves during a solar eclipse.

The Gray Fox

I'm moving this text here from the main page, as it's entirely guess-work, with multiple possibilities. It might, perhaps, be more appropriate to transfer it to either the main page or the Talk Page for The Gray Fox, but I didn't think it belonged in Easter Eggs because of how uncertain it is. --Robin Hood 21:59, 21 February 2008 (EST)

• Widely debated is the source of inspiration for the Thieves Guild's leader, the Gray Fox, but a few theories of which are as follows:

1. The Gray Fox might be a reference to the "gentleman bandit" Bill Miner, an infamous train-robber who plagued Canada's CPR rail-line and coined the phrase, "Hands up." He was given the name "Gray Fox" due to his age, being in his late fifties. A movie concerning his deeds was released in 1982 under the title The Gray Fox.
2. The Gray Fox may be based off the leader of a band of thieves in The Court Jester named "The Black Fox".
3. The Gray Fox may be a reference to the Dread Pirate Roberts from The Princess Bride. Both inherited their title and reputation from a line of anonymous precursors, both wore masks to hide their true identities, and both revealed themselves to their true love (a princess and a countess) who thought them dead. Furthermore, many of the Gray Fox's lines are similar to those of the Dread Pirate Roberts. (ie - "I am not the first Gray Fox" and "I am no one to be trifled with.")
4. Gray Fox was also the codename of a character from the Metal Gear Solid series, in which he was a cyborg ninja. Seriously.

Carmala

Another uncertain reference from the main page. --Robin Hood 22:01, 21 February 2008 (EST)

• The Ayleid ruin Carmala may be named after a book called Carmilla, as the ruin contains vampires and the book is about a family who, one night, witnesses a cart crash and takes in a woman by the name of Carmilla, whom they later find out is an ancient vampire.

Re-org

Okay, this page's re-org is done. Can some uber-editor put nice boxes around the notice at the top or something please? I have no idea how to do that.

I'm leaving the Interesting Places and Elder Scrolls Historical References pages until tomorrow, as it's quite late now. --Robin Hood 22:18, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Oh yeah, just for the information of anyone reading this, I think there were a total of 3 Easter Egg submissions that I considered just too tenuous to be worth posting on the talk page for a second opinion, and I deleted them outright. --Robin Hood 22:58, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Dark Brotherhood quest names are Easter Eggs!

Dark Brotherhood quests have references to the popular trading card game "Magic the Gathering".

Quest names "Watery Grave" and "No Rest for the Wicked" are identical to Magic cards with BLACK colour (which represents death in that game mechanics, as well as black+blue represents an intrugue).

Here are direct links to the cards: http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=watery%20grave http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=no%20rest%20for%20the%20wicked

I hope it would be useful.

Kind regards, Filip.— Unsigned comment by Lamb (talk • contribs)

These are also common cultural references, so it's difficult to say if they can be considered Easter Eggs referring to Magic: the Gathering. If there are other comparisons besides the name that can be made, however, then I would agree. The fact that they're Black cards, which generally deal with death/necromancy does tie in a bit with the fact that these are Dark Brotherhood quests, but I think there would need to be a bit stronger of a comparison than that to qualify as an Easter Egg. That's just my opinion, though; I'll wait for "majority rule" on this one. :) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 23:19, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

Pfft, whatever. They're very common phrases, netting 416,000 and 831,000 hits on Google respectively, and Magic: the Gathering doesn't make the first 5 pages for either of them. Given how many thousands of cards there are in Magic, it's only to be expected that phrases as common as these would get used. And as for them being black cards - well, heck, one of them has the word "Grave" in it, and the other has "Wicked", making them perfect for both the black cards in Magic and for Dark Brotherhood quests in Oblivion. I'd say it's just a coincidence, but I don't even think it's unusual enough to be called that. Now, if ALL the DB quests had names in common with Magic cards, I'd say you might be on to something, but as is, it just looks like grasping at straws to me. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 23:28, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

well the quest name for A Knife in the Dark would also be the name for a chapter 11 from the lord of the rings fellow ship of the ring could be on to somthing — Unsigned comment by 71.76.193.235 (talk)

Through A Mirror, Darkly - Easter Egg

Although it is originally a quote from the Bible, the content of the mission would suggest it is more than likely a reference to the Philip K Dick novel "Through A Scanner, Darkly". — Unsigned comment by 77.96.237.241 (talk)

The name is "Through a nightmare, darkly" for one… Miceypoo@aol.com— Unsigned comment by 66.124.247.197 (talk)

Which would mean it's a reference as opposed to a COPY. And yeah, I might have noticed the "Through a Scanner, Darkly" thing as well. Maybe Dick got it from the Bible, and Bethesda got it from Dick... I suggest that more research is needed.

--Ocylith 06:53, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

Is Indy Righteous?

During the quest The Path of the Righteous in the Knights of the Nine mod, the subtitles "Only in a leap from the lion's head/will he prove his worth" comes from "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade". — Unsigned comment by 217.216.8.59 (talk)

Ah, yes. However, those will be the clever little things that clever little contributors add into the wiki. The subtitles to our good hints and walkthroughs of the game— they don't actually show up in the game. It's the style of the wiki. —Dark Spark 20:08, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Bows graciously --AlbinoMudcrab 00:34, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Minsc and Boo stand ready!

NPCs have sometimes said, "Jump on my sword while you can!" Which is a reference to BioWare's Baldur's Gate character Minsc, who isn't terribly bright. The whole line is, "Jump on my sword while you can, evil! I won't be so gentle! *squeak squeak*." I haven't heard it for a while, so it may have been removed with a patch. Anyway, if anybody here has their armor sharpened and raring to go, you might want to include it (since I have no login). — Unsigned comment by 72.8.92.226 (talk)

Note from the team... and a gift

Go to Fort Strand (below Anvil) and climb the walls. The best way is if you face the door (and Anvil) walk around the back and climb from there. On the top most ledge/wall will be two potions and a note from the team saying 'Nothing is free..... except for this.' Sweet! — Unsigned comment by 194.75.129.200 (talk)

Indeed. The note is located right on top of the entrance arch. Hard to say in which section this should go (I think this qualifies as an Easter Egg). Having said that, are the drunk Goblins mentioned anywhere? --Timenn < talk > 08:03, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

It's a similar thing to The Unbeaten Path, isn't it? Although in this case you are not given any clues to the treasure's existence (or are you?). As for the dead goblins, they are mentioned on the various location pages, whether drunk or not. --Gaebrial 09:01, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Romeo and Juliet Reference

In "The Assassinated Man" quest, you have to give the guy a poison that "mimicks the effects of death" until the antidote is administered then he has to flee after the guys who want him killed think hes dead. The same thing happens to Juliet except it never wears off and it kills her but her original plan was the same, flee with Romeo after everyone thought she was dead. — Unsigned comment by 75.57.252.195 (talk)

Well first, somebody needs to re-read the play, or at least a summary. Second, the only similarity is the poison. Every other aspect is different so it's not an easter egg. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 04:46, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

Another similarity is that Juliet is revived in the family tomb or whatever its called as is Montierre... the fleeing the town thing is another similarity. — Unsigned comment by 71.129.80.89 (talk)

Montague is nothing like Motierre except for "Mo" at the start. Romeo is banished; he doesn't flee town to avoid debts. Oh, and the reason I gave you the link is that the potion doesn't kill Juliet, she kills herself. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:06, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

I corrected myself. — Unsigned comment by 71.129.80.89 (talk)

Debaser

Debaser is a sword that you receive when completing the Unfriendly Competition quest. It is also perhaps the most well-known song by the seminal indie-band "The Pixies" from their groundbreaking 1989 release "Doolittle".

It would be very cool if the player's final blow to an NPC from Debaser resulted in male NPC's screaming "Debaser!" and female NPC's speaking "Debaser" right before dying. Listen to the song, you'll see what I mean.— Unsigned comment by 169.145.3.13 (talk)

Is there anything else to suggest that the sword and the song have anything in common? If not, it's probably just a coincidence.--Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 15:36, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

I would agree to your point, Robin, if you could list other places in pop culture where "Debaser" was used with alternate meanings.. The fact that there are no other known reference points in pop culture for "Debaser" beyond the song means that it was highly likely someone on the design team named the sword with the song in mind. It is possible that you are correct in your assumption of coincidence, Robin, however, you are probably wrong. — Unsigned comment by 169.145.3.12 (talk)

Really, about the only similarity I can find between the song and the sword is that I enjoy both the song and the game of Oblivion. There is no similarity between the song's lyrics and the sword. There are thousands of items in the game of Oblivion, so coincidences in names are inevitable. Given that "debase" is a standard verb, it's not that much of a stretch to speculate that the developers derived the sword's name from the verb. Other weapons have similar names, such as Defiler and Pounder. Maybe if all three weapons were Pixies songs, you'd have a case. But a single coincidence is just that: a coincidence. Anything more is speculation, which does not belong in the article. --Nephele^Talk 16:18, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

(Nephele and I were apparently responding at the same time, so indented this to match her new indentation.) But that brings up the question: why does it have to be in pop culture at all? The word "debaser" means something that lowers the quality or worth of an object, or taints it in some way. Since the Debaser in the game lowers your Willpower and Endurance, I suspect it's intended as nothing more than in its literal meaning. That said, it's entirely possible that the song had something to do with it, perhaps even inspired it...developers are known to listen to music sometimes. ;) But even if it is somehow related to the music industry, it could well be something to do with the band Debaser. Without more evidence to support where it may have come from, it definitely doesn't belong on the main page. Here on the talk page is fine, though, of course. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 16:15, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

"Be seeing you"

I'm pretty sure the game-wide farewell of "Be seeing you" is a reference to the late sixties TV show "The Prisoner."

Actually be seeing you is a common thing to say when you part ways with someone, especially in the non-tech world--Puddle 20:37, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

March Rider = Play on "Mach Rider"

This is pretty much the only way the name makes any sort of sense. Obviously it doesn't reference the month of March, since there isn't any such month in Tamerial (otherwise it would be called "First Seed Rider", and I highly doubt it has anything to do with Marching. — Unsigned comment by Rylasasin (talk • contribs)

I don't see that Mach Rider makes any sense either. First, the names are not the same: if the developers really wanted to make a reference, why not just name the store "Mach Rider"? Second, there is no similarity between a racing game and a store that sells weapons. The items for sale in the store and the proprietor's name don't seem to hint at any connection; if the developers meant it to be a reference, they could have found many ways to highlight the connection. For something to qualify as an easter egg there needs to be some evidence that the similarity in names is not just a coincidence, and I don't see that here. Unsupported speculation doesn't belong in articles. --Nephele^Talk 23:37, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

After the test of "evidence to support that this is intentional", the next best test to know whether it's a play on "Mach Rider" is to ask if there's anything else that it could reasonably be compared to. And the answer to that is "Yes, there is." Robèrt Lafont wrote a book called Le Cavalier de Març, which is commonly translated into English as The March Rider, though I don't know if the book itself has been. As far as I can tell, there is nothing inside or outside of the store, or even the entire game, that would lead you to conclude it was intended in some way to compare to either one. For all we know, someone on the development team could have been reading the book, playing the old game, or maybe it was March at the time, and he/she saw a horse "rider" on his way to work that day. So in this case, both tests have been failed. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 01:19, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh, I got so caught up with why it could be something else, I missed the more obvious explanation. A "march" is like a border region or an unexplored area, therefore more likely than not, "The March Rider" is intended to be taken literally -- someone who rides outlying or unexplored regions. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 00:06, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Vaermina: Arkved's Tower - Thief: The Dark Project reference

This seems to be a very clear reference to the mission "The Sword" in the classic Looking Glass game Thief: The Dark Project. Many parts of the map (rooms with oversized furniture, rooms with furniture on the ceiling, bridges in a black abyss) have very similar themes to areas in that mission. --NamelessVoice 13:57, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

Reference to one Monty Python sketch

I was in A Fighting Chance this morning and Rohssan said something to the effect of "Othrelos will teach you if you want learn how not to be seen."

This is a pretty famous sketch; here's a YouTube link, as well: Clicky. IWon'tFightUndead 09:32, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

lol. I'd say that since Otherelos IS the stealth trainer, this would be an Easter Egg. I don't know if this counts as enough evidence though...

--Ocylith 07:01, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

Given the fact that the wording is a bit unusual, I would tend to agree, though I would've preferred stronger evidence. (But who am I to talk?) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 10:32, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

Origins of the Gray Prince and Castlevania series

I think it should be noted that the quest concerning Agronak's heritage bears some resemblances to the Castlevania series. They're mostly somewhat tenuous. However, Agronak being half-vampire resembles Alucard from the Castlevania series, and the entire quest from the arrival at Crowhaven resembles all the games - penetrate an ancient castle, fight the undead and wolves and other dark supernatural-ish things, and kill the vampire lord. However, this may be pretty generic. Faceless 19:10, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Black Waterside

Could the Black Waterside stables outside Cheydinhal possibly be a reference to the English folk tune of the same name? The song's probably better known as Black Mountainside, a track on Led Zeppelin's first album, which was itself a cover of a Bert Jansch recording. Is this a pure coincidence, or could it be counted as a cultural reference?84.92.93.112 19:17, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Luckless Lucina

There is a beggar named Luckless Lucina in Cheydinhal. This may refer to Lucky Luciano, a mobster from the early 20th century. (Originally posted by 88.195.10.33) --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 21:50, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Mother's Head?

"The item dubbed "Mother's Head", from the quest "Following a Lead", is a reference from the slasher movie "Friday the 13th: Part 2". Jason (the deranged and invulnerable killer) talks to the head of his decapitated mother, who was killed in an earlier movie."

Are you sure it's not a reference to the "Psycho" films, where Norman Bates keeps his mother's corpse in his cabin? 66.63.86.156 14:54, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

While it's possible, it seems the less-likely of the two, because they only created a head. If they'd wanted to refer to Psycho, they could've easily created the entire corpse instead of just the head. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 13:17, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Washington DC Reference?

(Discussion Moved from Fort Farragut Talk and Umarked Places Talk.)

I believe that Fort Farragut's name came from the place and stops in the Metro System of Washington D.C. What with Bethesda being right next to D.C., I believe this further helps to strengthen my theory. Am I right or mostly right?!?! (I hope I am right!) If I am right then this is my first big(ish)change Drake3555 22:44, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

It's entirely possible, but besides the name, is there anything that leads you to believe this? Or are there other fort names that are similar to the Metro System names? If there are, then this might be better placed on the Easter Eggs page. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 14:48, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

I'll Check for any forts with similar names to anywhere in D.C.Drake3555 21:29, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

(Following entries were from two different pages, so overlap.)

Is there any possible way that the "Dark Grove" is actually a "Shady Grove"? I am trying to prove something on another page and this would help! Please respond soon! I'm trying to prove the part on "Farragut's origin's" Thanks Drake3555 21:53, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Hah! I am awaiting a response but I beleive that the "Dark Grove is actually a "Shady Grove"! I may just be killing this but it may be a reference to the Shady Grove[1] stop (last part of the Red Line)!! I will continue my search as it has only been a few minutes for my search!! Drake3555 22:00, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

I still may be beating a dead horse with a stick but I beleive that the Gold Road/The Yellow Road, Red Road, Green Road, Blue Road, and the Orange Road are all refrences to the Metro system colors because, as you will see in the map link I gave earlier, the Rails are color coded!! --Drake3555 22:12, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

I think I may have just proven that and the reason the roads are named as they are, though there may be other reasons... If I have to find anything more, just tell me!!!--Drake3555 22:18, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

I think you may be on to something, but also that you may be beating a dead horse. :). Wait to see what others think, and if someone agrees, then write something on the main page. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 22:44, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

A lot of possibilitys, but no solid evidence. I mean, for all we know, one of the devs is an American Civil War buff, and the fort was named after the real Admiral Farragut (for which the DC place is named). As for the road colors, it is common to name routes after colors. Lastly, Dark Grove to Shady Grove is a huge stretch. They differ in half the name, and Grove is a bit too common. Now, I'm not saying your wrong, but there's too little evidence to really say you're right.--Ratwar 23:25, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Well "Dark Grove" was a name that Willyhead invented, but it's still not an Easter Egg. I've posted this before and will probably have to do so again but look at the definition. I agree that the colour-coding of the roads is probably a nod towards the various underground systems around the world (pretty obvious) but beyond that it's just coincidence. The idea that one fort and one unnamed cell prove that the map is based on an underground system is pretty risible. All this goes to prove is that the capacity of the human brain for pattern matching is astonishing. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:41, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks! I guess I will leave it at that but I will continue searching for more proof!Drake3555 09:33, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

That's not various underground systems around the world, that's Bethesda's underground system. It is simply not possible that they put in these color-coded roads without even thinking about the local metro network. The name of Farragut was also probably inspired to them because of this, though there it might be not deliberate. (After all, it ends in gut, so it's a valid name for the den of a gruesome assassin, regardless of what history says about this Farragut person.) The shady grove is also dubious point, because it doesn't even have a name in the game. But the roads? That's a definite yes. --Gez 19:51, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

Dragon Easter Egg

Im amazed that noone has picked this up but. At the burnt down shop "All Things Alchemical" there are two Resist Fire potions and an oddly shaped red tree close by that looks like a small dragon, showing that the shop my have been under dragon attack. Anyone else find this at all? ( Reference to its history...Falanu's Shop (the third bullet point))

Thanks O'Mally

The orange-leafed tree does look fairly dragon-like, however you need to be looking at it from a perfect angle to see the dragon shape. I think this is more a coincidence than an easter egg however- I'm not sure if the developers intended for the tree to look like a dragon.--Willyhead^/t 15:17, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I tried to find the right angle but couldn't so might I ask for a picture?--Drake3555 03:05, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Stand just southwest of the shop and face north east, looking straight at the wall. The reddish tree just to the left of the shop looks sort of like a small dragon with its face pointing to your left. It's really vague, though, and given that that same tree is used in 116 other places besides this one, I kind of have to go with Willyhead on this one and believe it's a coincidence. --Robin Hood (Talk • E-mail • Contribs) 22:44, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

I had already found the tree but I didn't see much of a dragon--Drake3555 12:16, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

It looks more like a sea-horse xp awesome!--Wolfeye

Horse Whisperer Stables

The Horse Whisperer Stables might be a reference to the movie The Horse Whisperer, in which a man tries to save a horse named Pilgrim which might be connected to the fact that these stables are located in Anvil, the place where you start Pilgrim's Path, and the Knights of the Nine questline. — Unsigned comment by 74.234.76.2 (talk)

The name "Horse Whisperer" probably counts, but I think the Pilgrim connection is a little bit of a stretch. --Darth NANAME 23:46, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Talos refrence

I just can help but saying this, but in greek mtyholigy (Or was it roman?) a god named hepatitous created a large bronze man about 30 storys high and named him talos. this may refer to talos as being 1 of the gods

I believe Talos has been covered numerous times before. --Darth NANAME 23:58, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Kvatch Oblivion World

A courpse in the Kvatch Oblivion world that is lying in the lava is missig a hand and the legs. That is how Anakin Skywalker looked like Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith-by Maxilos, I'm not sure if this is an egg, but it IS possible, so i'm putting it here for now.-Puddle ^{Talk•Contribs.} 20:11, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Blackwood Company name

Most likely the Blackwood Company makes reference to the Blackwater Company (an US based security firm, providing among other services security guards, one of most profitable businesses being Iraq). There are a few well known casese when Blackwater employees fought shoulder to shoulder with US troops in Iraq.

possible prince of persia reference + giant objects.

if you go into the "basement" of the council chambers in the white gold tower (the palace)(you will need to picklock the door). There is a large hourglass called the "Glass of time" that when you activate a red mist swirls around it for a few seconds. Although im not sure whether it does anything or not. This could be a reference to the hourglass that contains the sands of time found in Prince of Persia: the sands of time.

Also in the same room their are several giant objects including a chair, a club/mace and a crystal ball. not sure if they are easter eggs but i might as well add them to the list just in case.

The hourglass is relevant to the final Thieves Guild quest. Whether it is also an easter egg reference to PoP, I don't know. --Gaebrial 08:56, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Dark Brotherhood and the Command & Conquer games

It became obvious for me the first time I played the Dark Brotherhood quests that the name "Dark Brotherhood" is inspired by the "Brotherhood of Nod" in the C&C series. It became certain for me when I discovered that the ruling body of the Dark Brotherhood is named "The Black Hand" just as the elite ops team of the Brotherhood of Nod, "The Black Hand".

Also I suspect that the name Sithis, (which is the darkest name they could think of I guess) was inspired by the bad guys from the Star Wars movies, the Sith. — Unsigned comment by Wolfeye (talk • contribs)

Once again people are seeing connections where none exist. The first connection is pure coincidence. The DB in TES is an organisation that kills people for money so they're hardly going to be called "Shiny Happy Fun People", and the second is unlikely given that Sithis was introduced to the world before the Sith were anything more than a glint in George Lucas' eye. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 00:59, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I agree with Rpeh, especially since the article already states that the Black Hand is a reference to the group of Serbian nationalists that assassinated the Archduke Franz Ferdinand that were known by the same name. Darkle 13:14, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Possible Morrowind Reference

After evicting him from his home, speak with Vandoallen Trebatius about 'Rumors'. This may be present in other characters, but he said to me; "I'll buy sweet rolls from Salmo the Baker anyday. Once I was carrying a sweetroll when three thugs attacked me. So I took the sweet roll..." He says it in a similar voice Socucius Ergalla. Isn't this also the start of one of his questions for you? — Unsigned comment by 24.220.147.165 (talk)

Yes. And it's already noted here. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:21, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Possible Phantasy Star Online Reference?

Surrounding the Imperial City is a city called the Red Ring Road. I believe in Phantasy Star Online (The very first MMO for consoles) the main quest of Episode One centered around your search a girl named "Red Ring" Rico Tyrell. Do you think it could be, or would there need to be a corpse named "Rico" or "Tyrell" or both?XXCrocmonXx 12:37, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Don´t think so. It´s a road and like all roads in the game they are referred to by a color. The only special thing about the red road is that it´s surrounding Imperial City - hence Red Ring Road. So I´d say it´s just a coincidence. Unearth 16:00, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

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