Oblivion Mod talk:Body Mods

Editorial Style

SanityCheck, I've set this up as a regular wiki page, which means "anyone can edit". An alternative would be a recommendations (opinionated page, authored by just one or a few people), but that didn't seems appropriate for this it's objective comparison -- beauty judgements are left to the eye of the beholder. (A similar page is Morrowind Mod:Better Bodies. If you would prefer it can be made into an opinion page, but I hope you don't -- I think this format works much better. While the regular wiki page can get pretty hectic, they also tend to grow with very useful info and contributions for others. (E.g., I started the BB clothes page, but 75% of the info on it is from other people -- which made it a lot more useful to me and others!)

As a regular wiki page, you should avoid using "I" and editorial comments as much as possible. I chopped Nemini's comments in part because they were too editorial:

• AFAIK, most body mods are just replacers, and so are compatible with cosmetics mods. Only body mods that modify RACE records (e.g. Robert's bodies for men) will be incompatible.
• Appreciation based on clothes is also true for most other body mods, many of which have large clothes selections. Unless there's an objective count of number of clothes ites available for each, this just looks like an editorial viewpoint.

--Wrye 23:29, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

Well, AFAIK, no other body replacer mod works with Beautiful People (which is the biggest mod for new hairstyles/etc), mainly because of the new races this mod introduces ... I agree with you on the second thing, though ^^ ... was kinda editorial from me ... :/ But perhaps we should advise users to search for clothes/armor for the respective body mods anyway --Nemini 09:56, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

I've just looked over my replacers directory. I've tried Emshe, Exnem, Growlf, RyanFu. They're all fine -- none of them should conflict with BP. The only mods that will have problems are those that modify the Race entries. E.g., Roberts.

Re clothes, it would be useful to see info on availability -- just has to be based on objective data. One good option would be too have lists of clothes mods for each. That would be objective and useful. Again, the Better Bodies list linked to above is useful prototype for such a list. --Wrye 20:40, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

I think that this needs some updating/cleanup. This is just about the only comparison there is, and it is now out of date. --WrinklyNinja 02:40, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, it is a wiki, you know. Note however, the link at the top -- the graphic comparison linked to there is very good. As for the rest, see what you can do, w/o losing useful information of course. One idea: better links to body compatible clothing lists. But again, it's a wiki. Make improvements -- others will then react to them -- or leave them alone as they see fit. --Wrye 03:27, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

Formatting, etc.

Wouldnt it be better to arrange the comparison screenshots in a table rather than just listing them? --Nemini 21:32, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

Yep. Done. I'll try to clean it up a little more shortly. --Wrye 23:29, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

Allright ^^ ... nice one --Nemini 09:53, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Sickleyield

The sickleyield.ufrealms site is dead and gone. Should the bit about variant chests for Exnem's be removed entirely or updated with new addresses if these files still exist somewhere? --Gez 11:43, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Links updated. --Wrye 15:17, 29 December 2007 (EST)

New Section

I've added a section on "Using Body Mods with Overhauls/UOP". It's probably a bit confusing for anyone not familiar with Wrye Bash, but at least it should help get folks started in the right direction. --Dev akm 16:31, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Comparisons?

Another issue has to do with how body meshes get used in armor that show some skin. When we build our mod collection with content from different authors, we need to understand how things will look when we mix and match pieces from their different collections. I believe that character size does not matter for this (since everything gets scaled proportionally), and also that textures matter somewhat but that mesh design is crucial.

Can anyone post some kind of comparison which addresses this compatibility issue? 71.126.176.174 17:38, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

Content?

Should not this page also have content about male body replacers? (Robert's/Slof's)

Or perhaps we should split detailed coverage of gender specific content out into separate pages?

71.126.176.174 17:46, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

My Wiki-fu is weak, so I'll just leave this on the talk page and hopefully wiser editors can put it on the real page.

This is Robert's body replacer:

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15624

It is a normal, female human with normal hips and smallish breasts. It does not look like a cartoon, it looks like a real person. I'm really amazed at the quality.

And for those who like bigger breasts, someone made an add-on mod.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18764

76.226.116.83 11:22, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

Feel free to edit the page. (It's a wiki!) Just try to follow existing format and you should be fine. :) --Wrye 22:49, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

This really needs an overhaul. The screenshots are quite old now; several of the mods (especially Corwyn's) have undergone considerable development since. There are other female replacers besides the ones included; for instance, I wasn't even aware that Roberts had a female replacer. Several of the existing mods now have development branches, and it should be considered important to explain how the branches are different from the parent project, and why they diverged (those two points might actually be the same thing, but maybe not). There is also almost no mention of male replacers. The page is titled "Body Mods", not "Female Body Mods". I do not think it is necessary to split it into two articles. Also, slinging terms around like "smaller breasts", "larger breasts", "medium breasts", etc., is pretty darn subjective and not very descriptive. While I realize it's not possible to describe these in terms of actual bust sizes, we could at least use approximate cup sizes. After all, the EyeCandy mods and the Fantasy Figure mods are not shy about using cup size to describe their products.

So I'd like to start a to-do list. I think the following are important to consider:

• New screenshots should be taken so that the images are up to date with current products, and so that all the major products (and branches, if the branches are producing noticeably different bodies) are represented. I don't know why a scenic background is considered necessary, since these aren't postcards but comparison shots. Would it be worthwhile to create a special cell with a blank or solid color background, and then frame the screenshot so that the top of the head is within an inch of the top of the screen and the soles of the feet within an inch of the bottom? That way, all the figures in the screenshots will be the same size and scale, instead of the rather haphazard shots we have now (no offense, but it looks like the different mods alter the standard height of the character, which I don't believe is the case). With a featureless, homogeneous background, the figures can be cleanly cut out using Photoshop or similar, and placed together in the same image. Using the CS to create a special "studio" would also allow you to have enough light to see all necessary detail (something that can be very difficult to do in-game, even if you stop time).
• Male replacers should be given as much space in the article as possible. I've no doubt the female mods are more popular and that there are more of them. But male mods are no less important.
• It is not necessary or desirable to include info on all the clothing mods associated with each replacer. Such a list would probably never be complete, as new ones are popping up all the time, and others are being abandoned or made obsolete by changes in the mod for which they were designed. Attempting to include a list of examples will very rapidly turn into a dumping ground for everyone's pet mod. It is important, however, to note which mods require replacement meshes and textures for the vanilla clothing. Add-ons that can substantially change the out-of-the-box experience, such as breast size adjustment and animation mods, probably should be included.
• In addition to the current criteria, the table (or a description somewhere else) should describe amount of genital/nipple detail, presence or absence of body hair, availability of underwear/nude versions, approximate cup size, waist size in comparison to bust and hips, how high or low (comparatively) the bust and buttocks ride on the frame, and the designers' intent (ex., Biu's intent was to create an active-looking form that did not resemble a pornstar; Raiar intended to create "adult only" content, etc.).
• The table should note which mods have branches, but unless the branches are producing radically different product, the exact nature of the branches should be reserved to the discussion following the table.
• Above all, we need to be exacting and critical. I don't mean bashing, I mean we should be examining in detail why someone thought it was important to create a new mod. How was it intended to be different? How was it received by the community?

My two (or twenty) cents. I don't mind editing it, but I don't think I have enough experience of body mods or the CS to do much of this myself. Phelaran 23:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

all photo links are dead

Can someone fix it... please ?— Unsigned comment by Bebe (talk • contribs) on 23 November 2009

Links aren't working

Just a note to point out that all the image links for female mods listed in the table don't work anymore. This is because the photobucket account that they were on has been cancelled. If anyone knows where to find any replacements, you are welcome to change the links. --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:59, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Most of the screenshot links work now, but the imageshack ones for Exnem Female Eye Candy are dead. Just to inform. --92.11.41.102 11:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Question (NOT about links)

Why exactly do we have the Warning this page contains nude images of Oblivion characters view at your own discretion when all the photos are censored ? I mean shouldn't we either remove the tag or (when the links are working again) put up uncensored photos ? --TheAlbinoOrc 20:12, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I believe there used to be uncensored images that were linked to, but were removed once the links went dead. The warning is still there, so feel free to re-add those images if you can find the proper place. --Timenn-<talk> 21:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I would add them but unfortunately I'm on the PS3 so no mods.--TheAlbinoOrc 19:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Needs Image

While there are a couple of good images on this page already (thanks to any/everyone who put them up by the way) it needs more, however I'm reluctant to just stick up a needs image template for fear of people thinking that it means that all sections of the page even the ones which don't need images (Exnem's which already has a very nice three angle picture, or Bab's Body Mod which could simply need more images as this could certainly be useful for anyone trying to compare what the different body mods look like in clothing) need to have their pictures replaced. Any ideas on what to do ?--TheAlbinoOrc 17:06, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, you can use the {{NeedsImage}} tag. The only thing that you missed a little ago was that if you wanted to add specific requirements for the images needed, you also have to add a pipe "|", like this {{NeedsImage|Image of an NPC while he is in Anvil}}, as an example. This way you can explain that the article needs more images instead of replacing the current ones. --S'drassa ^•T2M 17:20, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, S'drassa.--TheAlbinoOrc 19:00, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Current Images

The current pics look good, (thanks to everyone that put them up by the way) only problem that i can see is that they maybe should be all in the same position with mid brightness to prevent things like the glare on Biu's bab RC 1 .--TheAlbinoOrc 20:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I still think we need more images. Maybe we could get some of the Khajiit and argonians.Cmdr 23:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The problem with that is not a lot of body mods do anything to Khajiit and Argonians, AlienSlof made one or two but not sure about the author's policy on posting them here, as for other mods Slof's may admittedly not be the only ones but they are the only ones I know of so you'd have to talk to someone else.--TheAlbinoOrc 16:49, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

No, Slof's are not the only ones, Exnem has some body mods too. If you want a Slof mod, then sorry she's stopped making mods and she's took every single one of the existing ones down. If you want images of Khajiit and Argonian body mods then good luck, unless you nab a few images from Google. --ModderElGrande^{Talk contribs} 17:53, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

I didn't know about Exnem's khajiit/argonian body mods like I said but my point was that mods that affect beast races are relatively rare.--TheAlbinoOrc 19:25, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Deletion

I don't support deletion here. There's quite a lot of information here and I don't see the point in just deleting it. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:32, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

This article is not encyclopedic and seems to just be used for the sole purpose of seeing nudity. Now, I must say I am not against nudity, just stupidly added nudity. All of this information can be found on TESNexus. There is no need to replicate the same information (especially when we delete mods that aren't major, heck we even deleted Midas Magic, which is actually related to the game).

Now, this page was actually good and encyclopedic before Cmdr got his hands on it. I wouldn't mind having that version. Elliot (talk) 14:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I would support bringing the older version back. --Legoless 14:57, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

We deleted Midas Magic because it was incomplete - and had remained so for years - and was inaccurate. That's not really true of this page. I've got no problem bringing the old version back if that's what people want. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:49, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I went ahead and restored it and threw an incomplete tag on there since the male body mods are needed. Elliot (talk) 15:30, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Legoless, we don't have permission to host those images on the wiki, so stop making pointless reverts, please (unless you plan on actually taking those images). Thanks. Elliot (talk) 01:46, 23 August 2011 (UTC)