Lore talk:Main Page/Archive 2

This is an archive of past Lore talk:Main Page discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page, except for maintenance such as updating links.

Place Summary

I've created a new template - Template:Lore Place Summary - and I'd like to get some feedback.

The idea is to give an easy reference to a location's... location. Most Oblivion players won't have heard of most Daggerfall places and so on, so a quick guide to where a place is.

Two modifications that will need to be made if this is accepted: 1) an "Appears In" param to list the games to which a place is relevant; 2) Better handling of "Unknown" in params - with regard to VN tags and categories. Another that would be worth a look is a cut-down version for the dictionary-type page - maybe presenting the location as a simple link on the page?

For the moment, please do NOT add this template to pages. See Lore:Haafingar and Lore:Totambu for examples of how it would look.

I think this will be a useful addition. Other thoughts? –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 15:05, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

It seems a good idea. I think having an infobox on the right helps in the display and readability of pages. --Timenn < talk > 14:31, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

Simple and effective. It makes sense to me. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 16:38, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

What about the large number of places which do not appear in ANY game? (other continents, small towns mentioned only in books, etc.) Should the default be "None" to handle these cases? Or maybe not - "None" should only be seen if we're sure it appears in none of the games. Otherwise, it should just say "Unknown" until somebody fills it in. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 12:15, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

I was going to use "None" in those cases. I haven't moved forward with this yet because I'm not quite sure about the details. See Lore:Ald'ruhn for instance - the province is definitely "Morrowind" and there's definitely a region called "Ashlands" but what about "Vvardenfell"? Needs a bit more thought. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 12:18, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

I think you can get away with leaving off the "Vvardenfell" from the template. First off, it should go without saying that since the Ashlands are on Vvardenfell, anything in the Ashlands is also on Vvardenfell. The same reason you can say that London is in England, and you don't need to specify that it's also on the island of Great Britain. It should be assumed that the reader already knows that. Second, it's in the article text, right in the first sentence, with a nice blue link, so it's not exactly hiding. Finally, ALL locations in the game of Morrowind (not counting expansions) are on Vvardenfell, so it's not really necessary to specify. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 11:54, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

First Pocket Guide to the Empire

On a visit to the old uesp site a while ago, I was surprised to see a readable image of a PGE page in an article, specifically the Dunmer article. The first PGE has many rarely-seen illustrations and annotations that would be much better appreciated in their original form, so I was wondering if this could be used as a precedent from the site's founder to include the entirety on the sit, much as we have images of the Elder Scroll from the Thieves Guild questline. What is an admin's opinion on the legality of it, or rather how we should verify that it is, in fact okay. The dev who wrote the PGE helped Daveh out with a lot of the information on the old site, and is credited there.Temple-Zero 20:09, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

I believe the images used on the race pages were also published in the "Conceptual Art" section of Bethesda's site, which is our justification for using them under the "Fair Dealings" clause of Canadian copyright law. Not being an expert on copyright law (let alone Canadian copyright law since I don't live there), I couldn't say what the legal ramifications would be for doing straight scans of the entirety of the PGEs, but I was under the impression that it was only just this side of kosher for us to include them on the site at all, let alone in their original form. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have them on the site (in addition to our wiki-versions of them I think - one benefit they have is the ability to copy/paste text, which you couldn't do with an image-only version). You'll notice that I was the one who posted the 1st Edition of the PGE in the first place. However, I'm not the one who'd get slapped with the cease-and-desist order, so it's not my choice to make. Daveh should really be the one to make this decision, since it's his site, and any potential legal fallout would land on his shoulders. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 15:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Concept art, eh? There's the distinction, then. Oh well. Out of curiosity, when is the last time Daveh stopped by?Temple-Zero 18:11, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Well, his last post was in August, but he may have been spotted in IRC since then. I wouldn't know as I haven't been around much lately (to the point that I've lost my IRC admin priveleges, apparently!) Too much real-life stuff going on recently for me. We might drop him a message at some point, but it may be better to wait until we've got a few other more important things to bother him with. He's already got a notice about a new Patroller on his talk page from 5 days ago, we'll see how long it takes him to notice it. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 00:00, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Books

I know this will probably take a rediculously long time but seeing as most people do not have their own individual lore page, shoulden't we include links to books that provide information on them underneath their bio?

What about a link that is a properly-restricted search of the site for their name, so users will get a list of books in the form of search results. That would only require one link for each person.Temple-Zero 18:55, 20 January 2009 (EST)

That sounds good but I have no idea how to do that. If that were the case though, wouldn't we need to also do it for books regarding events and other things like that? (Gadianzero 19:17, 20 January 2009 (EST))

I don't know. It's a funny idea, basically just filling out a search form for people. I only mention it because the Uesp search system can be confusing to new users, with certain sections initially restricted, and a wikipedia format to everything. (The best way to find things in sources is just to search TIL. That will simply bring up verbatim matches and serve the same purpose, though you need to be able to recognize the fan articles.) There are a lot of orphaned dictionary entries, however. Temple-Zero 19:29, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Offhand, I don't know of a way to realistically create a form listing all of the books that mention a particular person -- especially a list that would be accurate enough to be useful (automatic lists would not be able to deal with a person who has multiple names (Talos, Tiber Septim), nor would they be able to deal with multiple people who share the same name (King Camaron, Camaron Usurper; Uriel I, Uriel II, Uriel III, etc); some books may mention a person's name but not provide any information about the person). I think it would be better as people's (or places' or events') information gets fleshed out to add a manually created list of the books describing that person. The list would go on the person's individual lore page; it's trivial to move a person's information onto an individual page if there's enough information to warrant it. --Nephele^Talk 18:34, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Oh, just to followup though, I thought I should point out that one useful way to get a list of relevant books is to use What Links Here (now that all of the books have a pretty comprehensive set of links to all mentioned subjects). Use the What Links Here option on the left side of a given page, limit the namespace to just the Lore namespace, then you just have to figure out which of the remaining links are books. It's a good starting point for creating the list of books that appears on the article. --Nephele^Talk 00:43, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Another tip that can work is to use the Google search for the site. Just remember to include "-forums" to keep it to the site, although you still get the old site. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 01:10, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Lore Stub Legion

Many of the 136 lore stubs we currently have appear to be unnecessary. In many cases, an article with the name of an obscure town was made and stubbed. Unless someone wants to add closeup screens of a map for each one, there is no new information available on these locations. I plan on going through the list and de-stubbing many of them. If anyone has any input or ideas on a faster or better way to do this, or whether they should stay, that would be great.Temple-Zero 17:00, 9 February 2009 (EST)

Agreed. I must hold my hand up for several of those - I thought I was helping when I created them. I'd suggest an entry on the relevant Place page and turning the article into a redirect rather than just de-stubbing. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 17:28, 9 February 2009 (EST)

Which provinces appear in which games?

I know that Cyrodil is in Oblivion, and Morrowind is in Morrowind, but being only the 4th game in the series, how does one get 9 provinces? Which provinces appear in which games exactly besides those? Being new to the series, besides Oblivion, where do the other provinces fit in?B10Reaper 23:29, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

Arena encompassed the entire continent of Tamriel. Daggerfall took place in High Rock and Hammerfell; Redguard took place in Stros M'Kai, an island off the coast of Hammerfell; Battlespire took place in a single multi-level dungeon; Dawnstar was set in Skyrim; Stormhold was set in Black Marsh; and Shadowkey took place in High Rock, Hammerfell, and Skyrim. --GuildKnight^Talk2me 00:48, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Consistent Headers Needed

For the Geography, Gods, and History sections, they all use headers for entries. Geography uses Level 2, Gods uses Level 4, and History uses a simple semi-colon (;). I personally would like to use a Level 4 header for all of the entries, with a possible exemption in place for the History section. Also, there seem to be inconsistencies on whether or not to add links to the headers or to the first instance of the name within the transclusion (non-transclusions won't have links). I think the link should be INSIDE the transclusion, such as my edits with [[{{NAMESPACE}}: | ]]. Thoughts? --Elliot^(T-C) 17:55, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Astronomy and astrology

Is there a specific section or subsection in Lore where I can check astronomy and astrology? --Max Welrod 05:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Try this. –rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 08:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Haha, ooops. It was right on my face and I didn't notice. Sorry. --Max Welrod 03:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Is the water in Oblivion endless?

When you swim, say out by the Anvil waterfront, can you swim forever. Or is there just a barrier so you can't swim out too far? TheImperialBloodBrother 03:03, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it is just water forever. Eventually, it just will lead to water, no ground, rocks, slaughterfish, or anything.--Arch-Mage Matt^Talk 03:08, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

It is not water for ever. After you swim a lot and try to continue the usual message will appear saying "you cannot go this way. Turn back." --Rigas Papadopoulos 19:02, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

If remove the restriction on crossing this boundary, then eventually can swim to the "line" beyond which the surface of water will cut off and the character falls down. The same applies to the landscape surface. -- Ruesp 19:12, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Magic

I was reading up on shadow key and it occurred to me how much the schools of magic have changed. I do not know how to articulate a appropriate article regarding the lore of magic, just thought I would put it out there. walker in nothing 23:58, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Infernal City

Shouldn't there be a section on the Infernal City on the Lore main page? At the moment it's not linked to in many places. Legoless 12:59, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The Lore main page is a list of in-game universe information. The book's events, characters, etc. are all canon (as far as I know) and they would be listed in their appropriate sections. Unfortunately, I have not read it so I can't say much in specifics. --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 20:26, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Linking to The Infernal City on the Lore main page would be kind of like linking to one of the games from there; it's not really the right place. TIC articles should be linked to in all the appropriate places, but I'm sure there's many that were missed or haven't been noticed. --GK^talk2me 00:44, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

who took the ideas?

So I recently read some lord of the rings books and wood elves and other stuff from The Elder Scrolls in there.My question is who took the idea first?or is it just some weird coincidence? (Timedragon1 15:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC))

Tolkien wrote LotR years before Bethesda created the Elder Scrolls, but elves go back much, much further than Tolkien. Here is some information on the Irish folk tradition, for instance. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Overall Timeline.

Wouldn't it be just astonishing if someone, or a group of people, invested their time in making a complete diagram of the history within Elder Scrolls... Hyphen.that 07:30, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Using the text in mods?

I was wondering if I could use some of the text for lore and stuff for books in my mod in Oblivion i am making.(Copy and paste)Skylar1146 01:51, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Which text are you referring to? Most of the text (pretty much all of it in the case of books) comes directly from the games themselves, so that's as free to use as anything. (Which is technically maybe not 100% legal, but I don't think they care.) Non-book articles are a bit trickier, but I doubt there'd be much of a problem. --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 01:57, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Check out the Copyright and Ownership page for info. From my reading, I am fairly certain that you can, as long as you link back to the site (especially the pages you took content from), use the exact text in a mod. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 02:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Alright so I basically just have the put the copyright info in a read-me for the mod or in the books in game itself? Skylar1146 20:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

The readme should work. I'm not 100% certain on any of this, though, just fairly certain. Vely^{►Talk►Email} 20:28, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

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