Lore talk:College of Winterhold

Discovery of Saarthal

This article states that the College discovered the ruins of Saarthal during 4E 201. However the Saarthal page itself states that the ruins were located by archaeologists in the late Second Era. Which is it? – Daric↝talk 00:31, 27 January 2013 (GMT)

Why not both? The time from late second era to "now" is 600~700 years, plenty of time to lose something and re-find it. The pocket guide mentions other things about Skyrim (place) that do not exist in Skyrim (game), so this is a perfectly feasible explanation. Silence is Golden^{Break the Silence} 00:37, 27 January 2013 (GMT)

Fair enough I guess. I suppose the quest from TES V: Skyrim would indicate that Saarthal had only recently been "re-discovered" at that time, as Tolfdir exclaims it to be "an exciting opportunity for us". Would it therefore be more accurate in this article to change the word "discovered" to "re-discovered"? – Daric↝talk 00:49, 27 January 2013 (GMT)

The Ysmir Collective

"Scholars from all over Tamriel have descended on the county since it became home to the Ysmir Collective, a library rescued from destruction in the east, and the cornerstone of academic life at the College of Winterhold." — Pocket Guide to the Empire

Does this imply that the Ysmir Collective was rescued from Morrowind during the Red Year? The influx of Dunmer to Eastern Skyrim at that time may have been responsible for bringing such a library with them. Or does this relate to an even earlier time period? Lore about Ysmir is confusing anyway, so what would Ysmir have to do with a library anyway? I haven't played any of the TES games before Oblivion, so I don't really understand much about Shezarrines, the Numidium, or the Mantella yet, but I am learning slowly by reading the UESP. — Daric✐ 18:45, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Ah, I have just come across the redirected, original Ysmir Collective page, with some discussion that has bearing on this issue. I'm still left wondering if the Ysmir Collective was brought from Morrowind by the Dunmer refugees after the eruption of Red Mountain in 4E 5. Any ideas anyone? — Daric✐ 19:03, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

I think the Ysmir Collective stuff is from PGE3, so whatever destruction it is referring to is before the Red Year. Could be the Blight Storms from 327, or maybe something further east than Morrowind completely. --Enodoc (talk) 19:14, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Interesting, I never thought of that. The 3rd Edition of the PGE was published in 3E 432, so the authors would not have known about events of 4E 5 at that time. Good point. What is further East than Morrowind? — Daric✐ 19:26, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

I believe Akavir is further east from Morrowind. Jeancey (talk) 19:29, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Thanks Jeancey, now we're getting somewhere. So, what would Ysmir have to do with Akavir? — Daric✐ 19:34, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

All it said was that they were fleeing destruction in the east, which probably means east of Skyrim, i.e. Morrowind. My guess would be that they were fleeing the Arnesian War, which occurred in 3E 396. Jeancey (talk) 19:46, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

(←) Thanks, that gives me more to read up on. 😆 — Daric✐ 19:58, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Oh, BTW, I assume you realised what I said was a typo :P . The Blight was 427, not 327. The Arnesian War is a good call, too. I can't think of much of a connection between Ysmir and Akavir, save that Ysmir is 'Dragon of the North' and Akavir is 'Dragon Land'. Morrowind is a likely candidate for destruction to be fleeing from. --Enodoc (talk) 22:32, 14 April 2013 (GMT)

Necromancy?

The College deems Necromancy an acceptable practice, but Wuunferth the Unliving says during Blood on the Ice that they haven't allowed it for hundreds of years. Which is correct? — Unsigned comment by 108.8.210.115 (talk) at 13:39 on 23 July 2013

It's possible the "official" stance taken by the Empire is that necromancy is banned, but Savos and the College simply bend the rules as they see no harm as its a viable school of magic. If pressed, the College may claim to forbid necromancy to outsiders in order to placate the very anti-necromancy Nords, but freely practice it behind closed doors. --Jimeee (talk) 15:14, 23 July 2013 (GMT)

Archmages

According to the article, Archmage Deneth was the archmage circa 4E 5. This information seems to come from On the Great Collapse, which should be on 4E 122. While it is implied that Deneth was a member of the College by 4E 5, it isn't specified if Deneth was the Archmage then.

Well spotted. Fixed. Mindtrait0r (talk) 14:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

On a related note, according to Midden Incident Report, Archmage Sedoth will be "visiting". Therefore Sedoth is almost certainly not an Archmage of Winterhold. --Enodoc (talk) 18:47, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

The "visit" could refer to the Midden specifically, not the college in general. I would likely agree that the urgent context of the report seems to imply the college, but there is considerable room for interpretation. Even then, the context of the report is showing the Archmage a mysterious newly discovered problem, which would far more likely be brought to the Archmage of the College instead of some random visiting Archmage. I think Sedoth is more likely Archmage of Winterhold than not here. BananaKing5 (talk) 01:41, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

An "upcoming visit" is generally how you would refer to a scheduled appointment from a visiting dignitary. The Archmage of the College isn't going to schedule a "visit" to his own dung heap for sometime in the future, he'd just go there immediately if an unknown relic was found. --Enodoc (talk) 13:39, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I think it depends on how the "upcoming visit" line is read. If you read it as a formal, diplomatic visit in the manner of a traveling dignitary, it would be illogical for Sedoth to be the Archmage of Winterhold, as you say. But if you read it as a check-in on some part of his own College, like how a high school principal may schedule a visit to a classroom for a performance evaluation of a teacher, then it would make sense that Sedoth is the Archmage of the College of Winterhold. The second point is the purpose and context of the report to begin with. Given the mysterious relic and the connection to missing students, I think the writer of the Midden Incident Report would more likely defer to his own Archmage than a visiting one for a potentially dangerous relic on college grounds (while it could be that the Archmage of Winterhold had already looked and Sedoth was just another pair of eyes on the matter, the way the report is written is as if the writer just discovered it). A real life analogy would be a research professor discovering something in a university. They would go to the President of the University (or another university authority) instead of the university president that is an arriving guest. The question is then why is the writer of the report willing to wait for Sedoth's visit instead of going to the Archmage immediately, but perhaps the date of the visit was soon enough.

Regardless, given the ambiguous nature of Sedoth's visit and no other mention of him anywhere, we could make a note in the article that Sedoth was a "potential" Archmage. I think that would be fair to say. BananaKing5 (talk) 18:27, 13 April 2024 (UTC)